RE ORLANTHI WOMEN. Thanks to James for his comments about Martin and my Greydog Women article. I would just like to point out that 'Staying at home' doesn't have to be at all boring. In David Dunham's great King of Dragon Pass computer game you spend 75% of your time at home, the action comes to you. You don't have to go to Snakepipe Hollow to meet with chaos, it will come to you during the Summoning of Evil or when a rape occurs in the village, or when your son blasphemes etc. You can have traders coming to the village from all over the world if you would, raiders attacking clan lands, strange discoveries in the fields, marriages, rites and rituals of fertility, heroquests, scandal, gossip, theft, drunken Uroxi in the mead hall and loads more. Glorantha has a habit of bringing the adventure to you it would seem, so even if you are a women churning the butter in the pantry then all manner of fun can come you way (or whey). In fact I sometimes think it must be more boring going off adventuring, a quieter life in fact (ha ha!) I must admit that life in Dragon Pass is going to be a lot more hectic and magical than life in a Lunar tenement, but don't quote me on that.
Cheers Simon
- ----- Original Message -----
From: The Glorantha Digest <owner-glorantha-digest_at_chaosium.com>
To: <glorantha-digest_at_chaosium.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 7:45 PM
Subject: The Glorantha Digest V7 #153
>
> The Glorantha Digest Tuesday, November 16 1999 Volume 07 : Number
153
>
>
>
> TABLE OF CONTENTS
>
> Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG Minister of Provincial Security
> TTrotsky_at_aol.com Re: Orlanth and Vinga
> Dan McCluskey On Troll Security
> Brian Tickler Big Rubble Scenarios
> Peter Metcalfe Carmanian Humakt
> Peter Metcalfe Joraz's importance
> Peter Metcalfe Female Orlanthi
> Peter Metcalfe Old Pavic
> Ian Thomson Languages: Pure Horse to (Old) Pavic
> James Turner More female Orlanthi stuff
>
> RULES OF THE ROAD
>
> 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially
> not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated.
> If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show"
> please do. But don't include the whole message you praise.
> 2. Use an appropriate Subject line.
> 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a
> point-by-point basis.
> 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready
> to stand by it.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 14:04:00 -0500
> From: "Bernuetz, Oliver: WPG" <Bernuetz.Oliver_at_cbsc.ic.gc.ca>
> Subject: Minister of Provincial Security
>
> Hi all,
>
> Does anyone know the name of the aforementioned Lunar in the year 1618?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Oliver
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:46:28 EST
> From: TTrotsky_at_aol.com
> Subject: Re: Orlanth and Vinga
>
> Alex:
>
> << If he'd said "female membership
> > of Orlanth is unusual: here are the paths available to unusual people",
> > then fair enough: but he isn't. If he'd said "aspects of Orlanth that
> > involve male fertility are inaccessible to women" then I'd have agreed.
> > But he didn't.
>
> He didn't, but while I'm not Speaker To Gregs, (much less _for_ same), >>
>
> No, but I am :-). Or at least, I spoke to him on this subject and got
a
> definitive answer which I'm told will appear in the HW rulebook. And the
> answer is (drum roll, accompanied by appropriate genuflections)...
>
> Greg:
> <<Both Ernalda and Orlanth cults are open to men and women.>>
>
> OK, so he's gregged himself, but he is entitled to do that, you know
;-)
>
> Trotsky
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:34:39 -0800
> From: Dan McCluskey <daniem_at_microsoft.com>
> Subject: On Troll Security
>
> I just wanted to take issue with Peter Metcalfe's comments that the
security
> precautions taken by the Uz in Krang's Table were somhow un-trollish...
>
> I will concede immediately that no troll worth the name is going to wake
up
> in the evening and think "gawsh, I'ze wanna stand Guard all night". And
> that they are rather lazy and unorganized by nature. However, trolls are
an
> emotional lot, and one of their main driving emotions is fear, which
> combined with the huge wealth of Krang's clan (It make free FOOD!!!) very
> quickly becomes paranoia. And paranoid leaders make for active
underlings.
>
> the Uz in Krangs Table are justifiably scared to death that someone is
going
> to steal their treasure. The rulers are therefore going to force the poor
> little men-folks to doo all sorts of distasteful things, like run patrols,
> and have a clearly planned out strategy for dealing with any funky assult
> that the mothers can think of. Keeping an organized and Visable defence
> active at all times is also vital to keep the other nearby clans from
> raiding. Having constant patrolls, and clever guard posts can keep other
> clans from attempting the raid, and Trolls will generally prefer to get
what
> they want by intimidation than fighting.
>
> BTW, I think it's a fine scenario -- dam stoopid hoomens deserve whad dey
> gets! Dem should see how tuff we is, an' go home. Don' mess wid Uz
houses,
> if yu wanna not get et. Hah.
>
> (okay, so maybe I wouldn't publish it without some hints about how the
> players might succeed, or alternatly, mentioning that it's Supposed to be
a
> death trap, and the "solution" is to find another job. But it's an
alright
> illustration of a petty troll fortress in the rubble IMO)
>
> danm
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 19:27:26 -0800 (PST)
> From: Brian Tickler <tickler_at_netcom.com>
> Subject: Big Rubble Scenarios
>
> Honestly, I didn't see that much wrong with Krang's Table. If any
> scenario was a dud in Big Rubble, it would have to be the one with with
> Griselda in it...can't remember the name of it offhand; my RQ/Glorantha
> lore skills are atrophied from lack of use. Anyway, the Lanbril-gang
> adventure had a decidedly un-RQ feel to it. Would have been better off in
> that Thieve's World RPG. Lanbril, IMO, was always nothing more than a
> lackluster attempt to get die-hard DnD thief players to play RQ :).
>
> - --
> Brian T. Tickler
> tickler_at_netcom.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:43:15 +1300
> From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
> Subject: Carmanian Humakt
>
> David Cake:
>
> >Speaking of which, did we ever work out what the Carmanians call
> >Humakt?
>
> Humakt AFAIK. Around the Sunstop, a Fronelan Hero, who was called
> Humakt by his followers, invaded Brithos. His worship had been
> introduced into the Fronelan wilds along with other theyalan gods
> in the century or so before this. So the appearance of Humakt
> in the Carmanian Pantheon isn't unusual.
>
> - --Peter Metcalfe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:23:57 +1300
> From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
> Subject: Joraz's importance
>
> Keith Nellist:
>
> >Joraz and the horse riders are mentioned in every history of Pavis I've
> >ever seen, the land is set aside for their horses, they are the ones who
> >go and get help to drive out Thog.
>
> Which is as expected since Joraz did become King of Pavis. But
> note that Pavis's children were unsuited to rule after Pavis
> retired so they turned to Joraz. That suggests that he wasn't in
> the Inner Circle of being eligible to bonk Pavis's daughters,
> like Flintnail was.
>
> Since you show nothing to prove that there were no Theyalans among
> the original inhabitants of Pavis and you refuse to accept my
> evidence, we are stalemated.
>
> >I agree that [Joraz] has compromised his ancient purity, but what
> >suddenly makes him speak another language, totally unrelated to his own?
>
> When he was kicked out of Robcradle by the Giants and fled to
> Dragon pass and needed some way of communicating with the EWF
> there?
>
> >Do you think that Pure Horse Tongue is some sort of magical language
> >that remains unchanged as long as you remain Pure?
>
> IMO the Pure Horse way of life require many taboos to be observed
> to work. If you break one of these taboos, then you can pretty
> much break the rest of them because you are no longer Pure. The Pure
> Horse Tongue remained mostly unchanged because of these taboos rather
> than any intrinsic magical nature (although nobody can tell the
> difference).
>
> - --Peter Metcalfe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:56:10 +1300
> From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
> Subject: Female Orlanthi
>
> Jane Williams:
>
> >Examples? I can't point you at page numbers off-hand, but there are
> >NPC female Wind Lords in, frex, Balazar.
>
> Wind Lords strictly speaking are followers of Orlanth Adventurous
> and only had limited storm powers in the rules. Female Orlanth
> Adventuresses are now Vingans.
>
> >The
> >account of the exploration of Skyfall Lake involves a female Wind Lord:
> >the narrator is surprised that the storms on the lake are so bad that
> >even with her Storm powers, she can't control them.
>
> She however comes from Esrolia where the women are in charge
> and slightly different rules apply.
>
> - --Peter Metcalfe
>
>
> >KoS makes it clear that a tribal king (and, I think, a clan chief?) must
> >be initiates of Orlanth, probably Rex. There are plenty of references to
> >female chiefs and kings, quite apart from Kallyr.
>
> I don't think Greg intended to Greg this.
>
> >Kallyr, incidentally, is an initiate (or higher) of Vinga. Also,
> obviously, of
> >Orlanth Rex, and Sartar. I doubt if it stops there: she's got a link of
> >some sort to Polaris, and wanders round chatting to stars on first-
> >name terms. Using Kallyr as an example of what your average
> >Sartarite woman can do is probably a bad move.
> >
> >Vinga: I know of no writeup that has been acknowledged as "official":
> >but then any such writeup would be done according to HW rules, and
> >since these don't exist yet it wouldn't be of enormous help.
> >
> >Vinga was, I gather, originally intended to be a game equivalent to
> >Orlanth Adventurous (but not Thunderous or Rex). It's been developed a
> >lot further since then, but that's the general idea.
> >
> >There is a Vinga write-up on my web page, which has also been
> >printed in Tradetalk. Attached to it is a list of links to every other
Vinga
> >writeup I've been able to find, and a collection of quotes from sources
> >that mention Vinga, from which you could build your own cult from
> >scratch if you didn't like any of the interpretations on offer.
> >
> >If you can find any of John Hughes' stories about Cradledaughter, I'd
> >suggest reading them as well, but as far as I know they're not on the
> >Web (yet).
> >
> >Personaly speaking I find the whole Vinga thing to be so poor as to be
> >unusable.
> >
> >If a female wants to worship (or is called to do so) a God with the
aspects
> >of Orlanth , whatever aspect, she does just that!
> >
> >I just cant see a female not calling on a God just because their male.
I'm
> >sure that Norse Women called apon Odin or Thor when they felt the need
just
> >as a male Greek might have called apon Athena. The idea of having male
gods
> >for men and female goddesses for women ........is just a little odd in my
> >opinion.
> >
> >If she wants a a warrior God then there's Humankt.
> >
> >If (as seems likely) a more female side is needed there's the female and
> >terrifying Gor duo.
> >
> >
> >The whole Vinga thing strikes me as a cop out, I dont like it and I dont
use
> >it!
> >
> >
> > DomT
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 20:32:49 +1300
> From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
> Subject: Old Pavic
>
> Keith Nellist:
>
> >> I am commenting on your usage of pretty remote. It is roughly 170 km
> >> from Torkan's Last Fort,
>
> >I still think that 170km of Praxian chaparral makes it pretty remote from
> >the rest of the EWF.
>
> And the Rockwood Mountains which the Ormsland lay beyond aren't?
> There is a major road from Sartar to Pavis listed in the Trollpak
> Map showing that in the old days, communication was quite common.
>
> Me>> So in your opinion, Old Pavic is a Pentan tongue rather than
> >> the Theyalan tongue mentioned in the example on p33 of the
> >> Glorantha Book?
>
> >I do not think that the example (in hte Glorantha book) can be taken
> >as proof that Old Pavic is a Theyalan tongue.
>
> I wish you had said this earlier so that I wouldn't have
> invested so much time in this debate. But we also know
> from this example that Tarshite is a Pelorian Theyalan
> Tongue which you are quite happy with so why is one factoid
> in the example good and the other bad?
>
> >Old Pavic speakers in RQ2 did not gain any Sartarite ability.
>
> Neither did any Sartarites gain any ability in Esrolian
> or Tarshite, which they do in the Languages in Glorantha
> article.
>
> >Biturian Varosh certainly had trouble speaking Old
> >Pavic to the Troll Priestess.
>
> He had trouble understanding it, which is as it should be.
> Many English speakers understand French better than English
> spoken in a thick Irish Brogue (although I suppose an
> argument could be made for Friscian).
>
> >> >Please advise me what language you think Joraz Kyrem
> >> >spoke? or the rest of the Arrowsmith Dynasty until 940?
>
> >> Old Pavic. He may know Pure Horse but it has become a
> >> redundant language shortly after the Zebras were made.
>
> >Are you suggesting that the Khan of the Pure Horse People didn't
> >speak Pure Horse as his native tongue?
>
> No. I said nothing about the native tongue of Joraz Kyrem but
> what language the Arrowsmith dynasty spoke. I then added that
> Joraz might know Old Pavic but blah blah blah.
>
> >That Old Pavic existed as a language before the
> >foundation of Pavis?
>
> Since I believe that Old Pavic was the language of the first
> settlers and the EWF rulers at large, then it pretty much
> follows that it existed before Pavis was founded. A related
> example: Sartarite was spoken long before Sartar made his
> kingdom from Heortland to the Creekstream River - it did not
> spring from the soil once Sartar made the walls of Boldhome.
>
> >That the Horse People who changed to Zebra Riders
> >suddenly started speaking a new Stripy Language (Old Barcode?)
>
> Did I say "suddenly"? I said they mixed in with the rest
> of the Pavisites and they would have picked up Old Pavic
> from this.
>
> Ian Thomson:
>
> >We've pretty much established that the rulers of the EWF spoke Auld
> >Wyrmish, and I hypothesise that the Empire had a common tongue of the
local
> >Theyalan base language -heavily- influenced by Auld Wyrmish (which I've
> >called 'New Wyrmish')
>
> Yes, but the article which you were referring to talk about the
> rulers of _Peloria_, rather than the rulers of the EWF. Hence
> the EWF required a large number of adminstrators/overseers/garrison
> and would have had have to lower the Auld Wyrmish Fluency requirements
> quite a bit.
>
> Pretty much like how the British Empire was forced to rely
> Irishmen and H-droppers to help run its empire.
>
> - --Peter Metcalfe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:31:39 +1100
> From: Ian Thomson <arkat_at_primus.com.au>
> Subject: Languages: Pure Horse to (Old) Pavic
>
> Hi
>
> I reckon there's a fair case for saying that Joraz and his folk would have
> accepted a need to speak the official city language, and initially learned
> it as a second language.
> However the next generation would speak the local language (Pavic) as
their
> first language, even if their parents still taught them to speak Pure
Horse
>
> So there would be a shift over only 3 or so generations, away from the
> original Pure Horse, which would probably remain but certainly drop in
> importance, as the new Zebra Tribe seem inarguably to have seen themselves
> now as people of Pavis above and beyond any other identities
>
> just my two clacks worth
>
> - -------------------------------
> Ian Thomson's Home E-mail
> (Computer clock has been corrupted
> by chaos and may be up to 2 days out!!!)
> Glorantha Site at:
> http://home.primus.com.au/arkat/runeq.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 09:31:12 +0000 (GMT)
> From: James Turner <j.a.turner_at_abdn.ac.uk>
> Subject: More female Orlanthi stuff
>
> More women's troubles;
>
> I was recently rereading the Greydog info from the latest
> tales and YBoT2. After increasing jealousy over how great
> it must be to play in this campaign I started to think
> about running it. However I can only assume that the
> campaign was not blessed by the presence of female players,
> of which I would have at least one.
>
> David Dunham's Ralios campaign and the East Wilds campaign
> from Tradetalk 3 are much more female friendly whilst
> keeping a strong Orlanthi feel.
>
> I can only hope that HW doesn't forget about the (few?)
> female players in the Orlanthi players guide and Sartar
> books.
>
> BTW - There is a good article on the women of Greydog in
> Tales but is more about npc roles. As important women may
> be to a clan when the young Orlanthi PC's want to raid the
> Rainbow Mounds staying at home is no fun.
>
> - ----------------------
> James Turner
> Systems Support Officer
> University of Aberdeen
> j.a.turner_at_abdn.ac.uk
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #153
> ***********************************
>
End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #155
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