David Cake:
>> Humakt is Fronelan?
Peter:
> Given that the Brithini claim Arkat's Father to be a barbarian
> warrior, there are few other places where he could have come
> from.
Not necessarily. Mastakos provides a shortcut from Dragon Pass to the Black Isle of Introspection which has a step in Brithos IIRC. Thus this warrior may well have come from Dragon Pass, or anywhere else Mastakos is worshipped.
David:
>>And what happened to all that Humath stuff, and Humakt originally
>>being a Ralian air god before Arkat redefined him as part of the
>>struggle against Lokamayadon?
Peter:
> Given Greg's statements on a related matter, I'd say that Humakt
> was a Vingkotling God whose worship spread to Ralios during the
> Gods War and became known as Humath to the Galalinae there.
Probably combining a good bit of Umath memories and storm powers with the sword champion.
The various beast tribes of Ralios seem to have worshipped more basic elemental deities than the refined Vingkotling deities, perhaps closer to the false gods the Seshnegi identified with their gods. (But then the Malkioni knew Humct, at least by the time Jrustela was colonized...)
Bryan Maloney:
>>Let us not forget Dirty Humct--he certainly had some input into the whole
>>mess that is Humakt.
Peter:
>No, I don't think he did. Rather he is a Malkioni interpretation
>of the god Humakt when they came into contact with the Gods during
>the Storm Age.
Which local variation of Humakt, though? Ralian Humath as portrayed in Broken Council isn't (yet, or any longer) a death god, but a "generic storm god". Humct the Deathbringer has nothing stormy, not even severed kinship ties. (He isn't claimed as Arkat's father, either, although Arkat seems to have adopted his ways or magics in order to overcome the Vampire kings of Tanisor. Did the old Seshnegi wizards call on the False Gods' spells? Did the failed Brithini of Arkat's and TMP's emigration to Arolanit?)
Bryan:
>>Speaking of which, which Gloranthan deities are Godlearner Ragout? By
>>which I mean, which are a mighty stew smashed together by the
>>Godlearners.
Peter:
> Arkat the Deceiver
Sounds like the Pelorian and East Ralian view to me.
> Wachaza
IMO mainly a (mis) used focus for a sea-demon's powers.
Bryan:
>>My candidates would be Orlanth and Humakt, definitely.
Peter:
> Orlanth and Humakt existed in roughly the same form as they
> did now as far back as Heort's time (which is the grey age
> before the Dawn).
That is a bit hard to determine. Neither Lokamayadon nor Harmast had any regard for what was true before their findings, but changed or collated the myths as they saw fit. Orlanth of the Heortlings was a Lifebringer, and Humakt seems to have been his champion, the North Storm (see Stormbreak). Orlanth was identified with several Pelorian variations of Erlandus, Lanatum, Oralanatus, etc, including Rebellus Terminus, the Ram God and the Sylilan Sky Bear. When the First Council missionaries went among these peoples, they found that those peoples' cult secrets resonated with their own Lifebringer deity, and they accommodated slight variations in the vast collective group of the Thunder Brothers. Who can say whether the Heortling Orlanth survived this unchanged?
In any case, Lokamayadon obscured much old knowledge about Orlanth and other storm deities, and Harmast created old knowledge of his own.
Peter:
> They weren't manufactured by the God
> Learners who didn't even rule most of the Orlanthi.
Definitely not. Orlanth's "manufacture" or growth was performed by the First and Second Council (and continued by the Third...), and counteracted by conservative forces (Harmast, and later during the EWF era Alakoring) introducing new evidence for traditions. (I always suspect Harmast and Alakoring of preaching their own brand of Saurintology...)
Humakt's changes have never been blamed on the God Learners, but on Arkat and Maklaman Ironblade. This makes them sort of Second Council or Bright Empire affairs as well. I find it very likely that the Otkorioni king Maklaman introduced or stressed the kin-severing aspect of Humakt to avoid all of his magics being swallowed up by Lokamayadon's Greater Storm, using pretty much the same methods and magic Lokamayadon did.
Whatever the God Learners learned of Orlanth and Humakt most likely came from the Slontans (even conveniently present on the southern tip of Jrustela) and the Stygians first. What they made of it can be seen in Umathela. In urban Slontos too little remained of Orlanth worship to alter the greater myths. Of rural Slontos we know too little.
In Kethaela, the God Learners never managed to infiltrate the Heortlings thoroughly (unlike the Caladrans or Esrolians). The Zistori cities there were enclaves in a different culture, somehow won from the Only Old One (especially Lylket - founded as an embassy to Shadow Plateau?), and they lasted clearly less than two centuries, probably even less than one.
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