> <muffled thumps as nice pansy proxy is deposed and beaten>
I thought 'reabsorbed' was the Official Term!
> Well stuff is bound to fall by the wayside and there are many ways to skin a
> cat, but no specific ideas are being targeted for termination. Rather things
> change as part of the creation process.
This one still smacks to me of 'removing interesting ambiguity, apparently largely for the sake if it', not incompatibility with any other particular piece of information that you've mentioned, I must confide.
> >It seems to me very likely
> >that at times almost _no-one_ in the empire knows for certain who the
> >real emperor is -- not even them-- eh, I mean, him.
> He does. The Egi do and other entities in the Empire can determine this, but
> each insititution has tests to see his Emperorhood. The army does, the
> Buseri do etc etc. It's the accretion of these powers and followings that
> eventually leads to his full return.
And what I'm trying to point out, and what is I think at least compatible with what Nick is saying, is that this is _effectively_ much the same as saying there's a bunch of guys trying to 'become' the Red Emperor, from among the "previous" guys' semi-divine offspring, the assorted Proxies, and whomever else, each initially making attempts to hoover up such powers, until in essence, there's only one left. Basically what you're describing is the same situation, but given a determinist gloss.
I don't like the idea that each of the above are infallible institutions, and could only possible ever recognise the same 'true' Emperor as everyone else, since frankly that would make for extremely short and dull 'succession wars'. (I'm no longer the optimist I was for a knock of of 'Republic of Lune', but I'm sure there's _some_ sort of decent board game in this...)
> >(GRAY and tFS makes it clear how low a bar this
> >is, after all...) Add in a spot of heroquesting, and a political faction
> >that might very well be inclined to not much care about the rest of
> >his imperial chores ("Dara Happa for the Dara Happans!") and I can see
> >real scope for more thana momentary confusion as to who is the 'Real'
> >Emperor.
> Oh sure, yes from that perspective yes. Even, who is the real Shah etc.
> However, what we've been having the problem with is who is the real _Red_
> Emperor.
And your argument is that the 'real (Red) Emperor' has 'powers and backing', and I'm attempting to analyse why this needn't be anything like as singular as you're implying it must be.
> And I keep returning to the point - there is only ONE Red Emperor,
> he is a single entity and returns after his physical death when the Egi enact
> the rituals.
Indeed, so you do, and much you seem to be attempting to make of this. But what I don't see is why we're confusing philosophy with politics, if it's the politics that we're attempting to describe.
> On the other hand there can be thousands of Emperors in the Empire. Sheng
> was Emperor of Peloria but he wasn't the Red Emperor. What I'm saying is
> should I move into your house, call myself Alex, wear your clothes and go do
> your job, I'd be be no more Alex Ferguson than anyone else. You are an
> individual and the Red Emperor is an individual. Of course someone could
> live in your house and do your job but they still wouldn't be _you_.
This is a point about the nature of individuated consciousness which, ignoring difficulties with inside leg measurements and insular accents that your chosen example poses, is philosophically questionable, esp. in the context of a ever-changing manifestation of a being who explicitly consists of a number of soul parts, some shared with other entities, and regularly franchises bits of himself out, but more to the point, doesn't matter a cuss as far as the practicalities are concerned.
> This is the point I think everyone seems to miss in what I'm saying about the
> Red Emperor. The reason he is not replaced by another person is simple - the
> Red Emperor is still THERE after being offed!
And exactly _where_ is he? In practical terms he's all over the shop, so I'm quite happy for his 'emergence' or 'coalescence' to be as (apparently) hap-hazard _as if_ what were going on were a mundane power-grab... Who are we mere mortals to second-guess how the Goddess' divine plan is to play itself out, after all?
In short, one of two situations pertains: either imperial succession is so straightforward, and if you're a 'false' emperor, bloody and short as to be uninteresting in the extreme (and apparently at odds with the drawn-out nature Lunar History says it sometimes seems to be), bordering on self-selectingly idiotic on the part of the 'rebels' and anyone who'd follow him; or, regardless of the true continuity of the being of the Red Emperor which we'll take as axiomatic, and ignore for all practical purposes, there's scope for confusion and uncertainty on the matter 'all the way to the top', making it potentially (and clearly, equally, it's not always been thus) just about as messy and at the time, seemingly uncertain of outcome as RW shenanigans to similar effect. While I can imagine various ways of precluding the more amusing of these alternatives in the Canon, I can't see why one would want to, or the exact means one would employ. (Much less how you can salt of earth so thoroughly that the seeds of such notions won't spring up anew, afterwards...)
Slán,
Alex.
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