MOB:
>I suggest there there are far greater implications when you retcon someone
>elses' work rather than your own.
I suppose this is what it all boils down to eh?
Just to reiterate what I said, I retconned my own work when writing the Shargash cult for SGU because Greg had written myths and concepts that forced me to retcon it. However, the resulting synergy is better for it.
So I didn't deliberately rewrite my own work. So I should be as irritated as anyone else yes?
This brings me round to why I'm debating this on the GD.
1). I don't have to. I could just publish and never raise a comment and you'd all go on unaware until you bought the book and had a peeve but that would be too late.
2). I chose to. I'm a believer in growth through debate and conflict. The GD has great talent on it and why should I not tap into it and get peoples views?
3). I think that much fan product that any product is better for a wide input of ideas, as long as there is an implicit understanding that there is editorial control at some point, as chaos will reign and nothing will be done.
4). I give Greg ultimate editorial control. If I write, or anyone else writes a ton of stuff and he says NO, then he says no and that is it. But I know that he has that control before I go in to the concept. I also know he is human, changes his mind and retracts ideas. We ALL know this.
5). I view the fan stuff as being more open to retconning than Gregs original stuff but even the original thoughts are open to change. Greg has changed many things he has previously written and fan publications have taken slants on Gregs work that are personal and subjective.
6) When writing for SGU we are trying to tie up loose ends but most importantly we are trying to make the Empire gameable. I guess I agree with MOB that the source works like GRoY and FS are not gameable for the vast majority, Greg sez so in their intros.
You changed my mind MOB! And I'm better for it.
To that end we are writing cults using them but they can be played. To that end we are working on cultures of the different regions, but they are from the players POV. To that end we are writing sections on how to travel, buy things, seek employment, scenario hooks, how to party, who hates who and who do you love etc etc.
The reason why I want to hammer down the Emperors nature is to give some solidity to the whole structure. Many of us (including myself) are comfortable with ambiguity, but many are not. I wasn't as a younger gamer. I wanted to know the "truth" and would be disappointed in a book that didn't give it. Many, many new people buying the game will be confused by lack of specifics.
A few people have written into the list wanting things tied down and to me in person. The problem is this:
We've had ambiguity for so long that we all have our individual interpretations of the data and have built on them and in some cases published them. I for one had a RE write up back in 1990 on an amiga that I though was really cool but I didn't publish it, so only myself and my gaming group thought it was "true". Now, I'd laugh at it.
Because we're comfortable with ambiguity, it is galling when someone comes along and says "nope - this is the way it is" and proceeds to publish it. Unfortuately this is going to happen to someone, somewhere along the line, because we can't keep everyone happy. Even following GAG, I'd still piss people off because some people don't agree with GAG ideas or don't even believe they _are_ GAG.
For the Gloranthaphile community, the past is long and filled with pain. We've had false starts and desperate attempts to get things going. Many people have worked very hard to keep things going. The ambiguity of Glorantha has given them scope to play with what they want to and enjoy themselves doing it.
HW though presents something new. It is a new game that challenges assumptions considered canon from RQ days. It is a first chance to integrate all the various pieces of info on Glorantha into a product line that is coherant and will last. The problem is (that I face and others will face) that ambiguity has been with us so long that there are multiple paths to take and concepts to view. For example do you look at the Empire through Nicks eyes and see a highly lunarised dystopia filled with Soviet chic or through Gregs eyes and see a continuous Empire from DHs early days with other cultures thrown into the mythic mix? As an author, which do I chose? Or do I make my own way? Or a combination?
I have to make choices and I also have to come up with something new because aside from GcotHW, the Wane history and a few snippets in CoP and elsewhere there is bugger all published stuff on the scene about the Empire. Then I look at the next level of souce material, Gregs unfinished work, which _is_ unfinished and not necessarily "right" then I look at fan stuff which is interpretative, personalised and not necessarily "right".
I'm the guy at work who has to make a decision on which man to lay off. All of them are good workers and all have their merits, but I have to make a decision, someone has to go. I could simply be arbitrary and make the decision without consultation or I could consult with the "workforce" and see how they feel.
Well I've consulted with the workforce and I think the majority view is that the Red Emperor should be _less_ than singular in some way. Not necessarily the way its shown in the LARP exactly but something like it. As MOB has said, its GAG and I'll go with that.
This is what I will lobby for with Greg. He has final decision though, but we do have input. Lets take it and apply it.
Martin Laurie
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