Re: Orlanthi Marriage

From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_cs.ucc.ie>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:09:47 +0100 (BST)


Ian Cooper:
> This paradox is probably not something the Orlanthi
> think about too hard however. For when considering a
> women and to whom she owes loyalty, where her honour
> lies they wold probably look at her most significant
> male relative (brother/father for unmarried/divorced,
> husband for married, eldest son for divorced/widowed
> mother, sisters eldest son for spinster with no
> surviving father/brothers etc).

Broadly I'd agree, but this would not be a matter so much of formula, as of whom she happens to _regard_ as the most significant male relative. (I'm sure 'put-upon husand and bossy brothers' is a social pattern common enough to verge into Orlanthi cliche'...)

> This fits with the Icelandic analogue. From
> BloodTaking and Peacemaking by William Ian Miller:
>
> "Several juridicial disablements also attended the
> female sex. In matters of inheritance a woman was
> postponed to males in the same degree of kinship from
> the decendant. She was not eligible for Thing
> participation, and if she headed a household, which it
> seems, was not unusual, the laws prescribed five men
> who could represent the household on a panel of
> neigbours: her husband, son, stepson, her daughter's
> husband, and her fosterson. The legal affairs of a
> woman were to be conducted by her lograthandi, or
> legal guardian. If she was unmarried or widowed the
> lograthandi was usually her fastnadi, the person
> empowered to give her in marriage and whose agreement
> was necessary for a valid marriage"

I'm amazed that this sounds to you anything like the Orlanthi! Negate each of the above statements, and you'd be a darn sight closer, IMO. ;-)

> If we assume mebership based on a significant male
> then if you asked an Orlanthi "to what clan does that
> woman belong", he might reply "She is Bjorn of the
> Squat Oak clan's wife" or "she is the daughter of
> Hrothgar of the Greenvalley clan". In short I am
> sidestepping the question of what clan a woman joins
> on marriage by suggesting that the clan membership of
> a woman is not of legal significance in Orlanthi
> culture (though it may be of personal significance to
> the woman and her kin).

I agree, though I'd say it's more of a matter of practical ambiguity (and to some extent, discretion) than legal insignificance.

> Do women get to vote at the wapentake in Orlanthi
> society.

Not only is the answer 'yes', but we have the precise formula for them being qualified to do so. (G:G, IIRC, or was it KoS?) Basically they qualify with a set of cooking utensils, which is noted as being rather easier and more nominal than the male's (or should I say, 'male-role', since presumably a Vingan would turn up with her spears, and not with her cutlery).

> Well it seems more equal than Icelandic
> culture so I would say the answer is yes, but that the
> wapentake they belong too is determined by their
> husband, brother, son etc.

Or by which they decide to turn up to, to be mundanely pragmatic... (Maybe with some sort of 'cooling off period', or complexifications to the 'qualifying' rule. "Yes, you have a cooking pot, but when was it last used to feed a member of _this_ clan, sister!")

Cheers,
Alex.


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