Re: More Wenelians

From: Joerg Baumgartner <>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:18:01 +0000

Peter Metcalfe replying to my
>>We know that some time in the Golden Age the Basmoli passed 
>>through on their trek from Seshnela into Prax, where Tada 
>>killed their great spirit.

> They came from Pamaltela, not Seshnela.

I'm aware of that. Note that the Pamaltelan Basmoli were last seen in the western Pamaltelan veldt.

> There is nothing to
> say that the Praxian Basmoli came from Seshnela and for all
> we know the reverse is much more likely considering the route
> of the Loper People and the Praxian Agimori.

We know that the lands around the Spike were dry after the initial flooding of the Storm Age (the Awesome Bridge of the Vadeli became the Awesome Mystery). There was more of a land bridge in the west than in the east, using Jrustela's lower slopes, since the Neliom current continued west of Jrustela.

Then there's the fact that the Seshnegi Basmoli had plenty of lions and (to start with) a life god (spirit) of lions. Ok, Basmol may have come via Prax and returned - but why should he?

Anyway, the Basmoli are numbered among the foes of the Vingkotlings (in KoDP their king is Ukka Graw (sp?)), so there will most likely have been some traffic.

>>Apart from that, we have the Pendali migration into the Basim >>region some 100 years after the Dawn.

> Why couldn't have there been a pre-existing population of
> Basmoli there?

Could. Though then I wonder why you're so adamant against Bastis...

>>> One would be much better using a connection with Yinkin-relation >>> rather than Basmol IMO.

>>The Yinkin relation is not much better - Yinkin is special as a son >>of an animist "deity" (Fralar) and a theist deity (Kero Fin).

> Oopsie. Durbaddath then as he is a theistic deity and he does
> have a mythic history of rebellion against the Dara Happans
> (AR p86). Greymane's people would then be a remnant of some
> lion regiment (TR p130) stuck in the wop-wops (very much like
> the Galatian Celts) during some ancient conflict (Arkat's War,
> EWF expedition etc).

Quite a fun idea. Though Durbaddath is the sun lion, and rumored to be related to the dog gods/spirits of Peloria.

Still, I would be very surprised to find a theist wolf people in Ralios or near the Maboder tribal lands for the same reasons I'd be surprised about theist lion people right next to the last Basmoli of western Genertela. The story of bobcat and alynx in AR shows the most likely outcome of such proximity.

>>The Mraloti of Ramalia span the worlds between animist hunter >>gatherers and theist farmers,

> There are no theistic Mraloti. They either maintain a lifestyle
> as animistic farmers or they forget this and worship Malkion.

Broken Council Guidebook speaks of ten tribes of Harandings and Drorgalarings, Shannon's History of the Kingdom of Night speaks of Esrolian Entruli. Maniria and Slontos are dealt with as a fairly homogeneously, and no mention of Mraloti Hsunchen.

>>and the East Ralian Hsunchen

> There are no theistic hsunchen in East Ralios. They are either
> animists or Orlanthi. There is no in-between position and no
> theistic worship of the hsunchen totems.

There are former Bemuri who now are cattle-herding Orlanthi in Keanos. They don't worship their totems in much of an animist way, but their totem has become subsumed in their perception of Orlanth.

I wonder if some Enerali perceive Orlanth as horse shape, but I suppose that would stretch the range of Orlanthi shapes too much from the current formula "hawks and thunderbirds, felines and ursines, and clawfooted herd beasts". So far no dogs, no horses, no eagles.

>>as well as the originally
>>Hsunchen Galanini (Enerali) show that a switch is possible.

> It's not the switch that's being argued against, it's your
> contention that Greymane's clan theistically worships Basmol
> and that the Wenelians are theistic worshippers of Mralot.

I did not content that they are theistic worshippers of their totem.

I contend that this totem became their perception of (a subcult of) Orlanth, with a set of affinities duplicating the totem beast's abilities. Sylilan bearwalker Orlanthi/Odaylans would be another case. Hsunchen-like beast totems are not an exception among the Orlanthi. The Heortling Deer is another such example...

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