From: Peter Larsen <>
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 23:00:27 -0700

Peter Metcalfe illuminates:

>Well the Jernotians were at odds with the Bright Empire
>(Entekosiad p90) to such an extent that Pelanda became
>the Land of Shadows to provide balance against the Empire
>of Light.

        Were they at odds for political, social, religious, etc reasons or for some sort of philosophical balance? (Balance is what Jernotia/us is about right?) Did they use Darkness as a tool against Dorastoran expantion, did they oppose Nysolar because they had Darkness ties, or did they adopt Darkness to balance Nysalor? While I'm on the subject, is there anything substantive about the Spolites out there? They are mentioned in a lot of places, but not very elaborately.

>As for the popularity of Nysalor: [example snipped]

        But the Upward Growing Free Spirit philosophy seems to have had support from all levels of society (FS 20), and the name, at least, sounds mystic (doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere else though). In general, the FS is pretty positive toward Nysalor (it's a Lunar document though, so I don't know that positivity says anything about Dara Happan ideas).

        Furthermore, the Dara Happa absorbed at least some Dorastoran philosophy, because the Orlanth=Rebelius Terminus is a Dorastoran idea, and it seems to have pretty wide currency (FS 77).

>So it doesn't look like the Pelorian traditions received a big
>boost because they were compatible with Nysalor. It's like
>arguing that Christianity and Judaism received a big boost
>from Mohammed...

        It improved the status of monotheism....

>You really have to show that Riddlers were around in Nysalor's
>time and not a post-Nysaloran development caused by the survival
>of some of his teachings and the eradication of others.

        I doubt I can do that. The Riddles are "Nysaloran Riddles' in D:LoD, but whether that's what they are or what people call them, I have no idea. Do you have the answer to this question? Does anyone?

>What happened was that the Tanisorans far beyond its borders (at
>the western edge of the friendly Dari Alliance in Ralios) were
>accused of introducing a terrible plague. When Arkat made war
>upon them, the kings turned to Vampirism and other forms of chaos
>to save their people. The Bright Empire itself was horrified (when
>Nysalor heard about it, he composed a sermon "at the edge of
>light is always darkness") and condemned Tanisor.

        At least, this is the pro-Nysalor spin. Actually, I perfer it. Nysalor=Gbaji=Chaos has never been all that appealing to me.

>I also should point out that manifest mysticism does not seek
>release from the world but rather unification with it. Despite
>this, it is not corrupt.

        But manifest mystics are given a philosophical grounding to guide them through the Illumination experience. Illuminates do it on their own, it seems, and don't do so well.

>>They sought after power, abused their gnosis, and "misapplied" mystic
>>teachings in theist settings.
>Why the needless confinement of illumination to "theistic"
>settings? Illumination would also be effective in Sorcerous
>and Animistic Cultures.

        Force of habit. Most Illuminates seems to be theists. Of course, in RQ, most of Glorantha seemed to be theist. We've seem Illuminated sorcerors; what would an Illuminated animist be like?

        One probelm with this discussion is most of the RQ stuff on Illumination came out before an idea of what Gloranthan Mysticism was like. If the Illumination chapter in D:LoD was written today, I assume it would read very differently.

        Thanks for the answers.

Peter Larsen

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