Re: Divine identities

From: Alex Ferguson <>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:03:07 +0100 (BST)

Peter Metcalfe:
> > > In the case of Dendara/Entekos, it is unambiguously recognized
> > > that Dendara is the same as Entekos, so how is this specifically
> > > relevant?
> >This is specifically relevant becuase that is _not_ unambiguously
> >recognised, and because it specifically _fails_ the obvious "common
> >initiation" test.
> It is unambiguously recognized (read the intro to the Entekosiad)

You're referring to the following "unambiguous" statements about their identity, upon which I based my original contention?

"Thus Entekos and Dendara seem to be, or have been, connected somehow with each other."


"Unhelpful was the Paradox Solution."?

The entire Foreward makes their alleged identity "specifically unclear" if anything, frankly.

> and the three aspects of Orlanth also fail the "common initiation"
> test in that they the rites of numerous holy days are specific to
> an aspect.

I agree that it's not any sort of gold standard test, and I mention it only because it's sometimes cited as if it were.

> >(To recast this as "same or different aspect" is
> >to propose more problems than one is likely to solve, I think.)
> How so? I've already admitted that it requires the existence
> of a "fused aspect", something not covered in HW.

Well, that'd be an example of the sort of problem it'd cause, yep.

> >Orlanth/Shargash
> Different deities, easily. The locations of Orlanth on the
> God plane are radically different from Shargash's locations.

I don't think any "test" of this sort can be at all conclusive. The other side isn't referred to as "the subjective realm" for nothing, after all.

> Furthermore the equation Orlanth = Shargash really only appears
> as a Dara Happan slur rather than an authentic example of
> mythological confusion.

The two are not incompatible. Equate them and disparage two for the price of one... My point is not that I think the two are "identical", but that they share several mythic and magical attributes that would, to the Dara Happan mind at least, justify labelling the two as "equivalent".

> >Tolat/Shargash
> Same deity, even their runes are the same.

Well, I certainly don't think that there's some theistic Pauli exclusion principle at work, which says that if two entities have the same runes, they must be absolutely identical... (Remind me, though, what's the reference for Tolat's runic association?)

> In any case,
> the lack of certainty about Oria is solely caused by published
> evidence to date - it is not a sign that gloranthans are
> confused about whether Oria is the same goddess as Ernalda
> or not.

The key question isn't one of confusion on the part of Gloranthans, but of disagreement between them. And magically effective differences of opinion, at that.

> >Elmal/Yelmalio.
> Different deities. Yelmalio and Elmal have different locations
> on the godplane and different runes.

This is remarkable, given that of all the candidates mentioned, they seem by far the most "similar", in any intuitive mythic or magical sense. But it's encouraging, in that we just need to demonstrate a similar "distinction" between Shargash and Tolat to dispose of that "identity", too...

[other examples covered elsewhere, or by the same points, snipped]

Slán libh,

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