First, I want to teach you my pranks for Godlearners and Sheng Seleris. http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/CosmicExplorersofPent.htm
Second, I added page of Introduction to Ancient China, though you might not agree with such Confucian Idea that "Older is better...." http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/ChinaIntroduction-e.htm I added Han Dynasty Costume from my Chinese Character Dictionary.
*Kralorelan Economy
<Aside from Gerald Bosh's Classical Trade in Glorantha, and Martin Laurie's
(Lunar) Imperial Economy>
I don't want to use to much reference of Needham and AGF to upset European
gloranthaphiles and uncomfortable place by using provacative method.
As a postmodernist (I don't know well about the meaning of this term), I think Andre Gunder Frank's logic (See below) is provocative and he too much stressed economical influence in history (like decline of Chinese ship-building and navigation technology after Zheng He's death).....but I want to approve his attitude against Europe-centralism like Marx, Weber, Blodel and Wallerstein.
Technological Invention of China : reading Joseph Needham and AGF:
Andre Gunder Frank
ReOrient: Global Economy in the Asian Age (1998)
Criticism to Marx, Weber, Blodel and Wallerstein for European Centralism.
Thanks Efendi for teaching me the title.
RW In 17C China, silver flew into the Empire from America and Japan, Peru for the hard disproportion between the Middle of the World and rest of it. AGF pointed out that the inflation of China and lost of silver in Japan stimulated their insular policy....
Maybe such role silver might be replaced to Iron from Seshnela....in Glorantha. But the usage of iron in glorantha is highly for everyday tools rather than as monetary.
All 17C international trade
>From China to Japan (Long Rivalry for trade, China soaked up japanese
silver, so japan chose insular policy (AGF and Efendi think so.))
Silk, Cotton, Sugar, Bark, Wood and dye, Lead.
From Japan to China
Silver, Copper, Sword, Sulfur, etc...
From China to Europe
Silk, Jade, Paper, Cotton, Gunpowder, Hide and Sugar
From Europe to China
Clothes, Medicine, Horse, Camel, Sheep, Silver!, Carrot, etc....
From China to South Asia
Ceramic, Silk, Lacquer Tree, Clothes, Weapon, Gunpowder, Mercury, other
metals, fruits, rhubarb, salt, Satin....
From South Asia to China
Spice, Rice, Ruby, Amber, Jade, Deer and Tiger Hide, Timber, Date,
Sappanwood, Tobacco, other precious metals...Saltpeter, Lead and Tin.
Main Production Centers of Precious Metal (17C?)
Gold: Africa, Spanish America, Brazil, Eastsouth Asia
Silver: Mexico, Peru, Japan
Copper: Japan, Sweden
Tin: Malay
Maybe through these transition stages, I can make some notes about Oases Cities in Great Waste and Pent, see above about Cosmic Explorers.
*The difference of Lunar Empire and Kralorela
<Insert Post to Peter Metcalph>
No reply from Peter...I don't know whether he could not do it, or don't want
to do it.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HeroQuest-RPG/message/18594 Kralorela is not Lunar Empire.
I suppose Rigid Caste System is something different from Kralorela. But how
you can express the difference?
And what the relation between current emperor and predecessors? Comparing
with TakenEgi and former many DH emperors...
(Maybe ILH-3 is the answer for this question....)
DH magic system
http://lokarnos.com/article.pl?sid=03/09/02/0928256&mode=thread
[Insert some of RQ con2 Compendium Excerpt: Seminar of Sandy and Greg p.92] <<SP: Yes. But, I think that the Kralori have a place for the heretics in their society, and I think that the Dara Happans can't. GS: OK, I'll buy that.>>
Maybe I come to be a Needhamist (Some of european scholars blamed him his insistence attached too many (all?) of technological development were from China.
In the classification of Wladimir Peter Koppen, the Climate of Middle China and Japan is Cfa, as East South of USA.
*Climate of Kralorela
But is actually Sea of Fog always in the mouth of Suam Chow?
Though there is no description of climate in Genertela Book as Missing
Lands, I think the boundary of Sea of Fog moving throughout year. If
Kralorela is China and Vormain is Japan parallel, the temperature and
weather are very fickle and changing with moisture, as RW. Especially in
Typhoon Season. (See Missing Land: Teleos) And in Clearburst, I am skeptical
Fog cam remain inside of it.
My opinion about Kralorelan (and Vormaino) Climate is battle between Kahar and Veldru, versus Orlanth (Serakaru) and Bitador, please read the mythology of Kahar and Harantara, Kahar said "So what?" to Mashunasan and learned only Perfect Stillness (Nenduren?), so they always suffer (enjoy?) fickleness of nature and care about the cycle of seasons carefully comparing to East Islanders (guarded by Mashunasan's blessing). (See Revealed Mythologies) http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/LandofVithela.htm
Maybe Kethaelans were destroyed by another reason. (I think Sea of Fog is mainly of Dark Season and Storm Season in Kralorela....)
Old Maps of China and Japan Portcities
.
Nagasaki
http://zoomphoto.lb.nagasaki-u.ac.jp/jp/map_ov1.html
Dejima
http://record.museum.kyushu-u.ac.jp/nagasaki/m632.html http://record.museum.kyushu-u.ac.jp/nagasaki/ http://record.museum.kyushu-u.ac.jp/nagasaki/usa3.htmlHakata
No City Map....
http://wsv.library.osaka-u.ac.jp/tenji/maps/maps.htm
Maybe from here: But....
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/map_sites/hist_sites.html
In these maps, Ancient Cityports of Asia doesn't need long quayes toward sea in their wharves, but Joerg wrote that
I watched many Port City maps of Genertela, Sog (Nick Brooke Site), Sea Polis (Tales #17, please don't use calpulli....) and Nochet (Michael O'brien's Site and Tradetalk #4) But I am not still confident.....
Joerg:
<<I'm fairly confident that the Dormal type ships mostly use quayes for
loading and unloading cargo, with lighter barges an inconvenient alternative
when at anchor.>>
I still don't know why long stretched quayes are needed for ships with anchors....and I still hesitate to use it in my map of Lur Nop. For if Kralori Barges don't need anchors, I suppose kralori don't understand such need of westerners.
Efendi:
<<In Ming and Qing Empire, certainly gigantic, more than thousands ton
weight level ships existed for without keel, shipment capacity can be quite
vast.>>
Me:
> > You [Efendi] taught me advantage of water transportation of the lighter
> > than quayes for the Kralori Barge without keel. As I mentioned above,
> > Kralori War Barge is not so large that you imagined (more than thousand
> > tons level ship?.....even if such ship exists, that is certainly
Emperor's own.)
>
Joerg:
> There is the problem of structural integrity of such wooden
> constructions.
Efendi:
<<Sea Convoys (Not Warships) built without caring about reefs can be
gigantic,
Cheng Ho / Zheng He's Baochuan in Ming Dynasty has 500 tons or 3000 tons,
but I suppose latter is right, for it had length of 150m and width 62m in
the record. He built 200 such ships for long expedition to South Sea.
Sea convoy ship larger more than 1000 ton can be found not only in Eastern
Asia, but in Europe.
Genovan ships tended to be larger than venetian ships and it was more than
800 tons.>>
Hmm, I don't know why there is contradiction, It seems that Cheng Ho's ship was not made totally only from wood, or I failed to grasp Joerg's intention somewhere above.
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