> From: Rob Helm <parental_unit_2_at_yahoo.com>
> We concluded that he could, without anyone doing any
> experimental heroquesting. Biazoch could have
> heroquested against some earlier myth, taking the role
> of some earlier figure like Diros the Boatman.
> Subsequently, people forgot both the earlier myth and
> Diros, but remembered the story of Biazoch's doings in
> the Hero Plane. Later, Biazoch was deified. Voila, a
> legend of a hero's doings in the Hero Plane becomes a
> myth of a god's doings in Godtime.
That certainly seems one possibility. In that case, certain feats become "borrowed/stolen" from a previous god.
> From: Nils Weinander <nils_at_weinander.org>
> One of the basic assumptions of the lunar faith is that
> mortals can _become_ gods. The Seven Mothers, HonEel,
> Selven Hara etc are examples of this.
Which is exactly why I am asking the question. IF they weren't gods,
they wouldn't be
worshipped and I wouldn't need to write myths for them. :-)
> Note that the Compromise is not universally recognized.
Really? Obviously it isn't from a mystic/animist and wizardry view,
but I had assumed it
was pretty well established throughout theist Glorantha.
> I think it is rather that the deified lunar heroes have
> made their own place in an Otherworld (through heroquesting)
> and are thus functionally equivalent to deities which existed
> before dawn.
> From: donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy)
> If people are acting on the Godplane then it happens in Godtime.
This is a more powerful version of Rob's idea above, it seems.
> Since followers of Issaries get all the feats and affinities I
> can't see why a major hero like Etyries should not.
What she did
> was to make the step from hero to god. Precisely how that works
> I'm not sure but it seems to make the individual a resident of
> the god plane, possibly by merging them with a pre-existing god.
Besides the fact that Greg has said no, I would say not just because
someone who has
all the myths of some previous person IS for all intents and purposes
that person.
Especially if she had gone to godtime and replaced Issaries in these.
It doesn't seem to
make sense that Issaries wouldn't have been completely eclipsed by
such an action.
> ------------------------------
> From: "Greg Stafford" <greg_at_glorantha.com>
> Friends,
>
> I pick my weary head up from the Fan Policy and, in a moment of
> relaxation, respond to
> > From: "Light Castle" <light_castle_at_sympatico.ca>
> who wonders about the Lunars and the God War.
Ahh!! I awoke the Shamanic Arkati Trickster! Now if he sees his
shadow we will have 6
more weeks of winter!!
(Wait, that's not right.)
> > But if I am writing up a myth of HonEel for example, is it in God time or
> > not?
>
> Both of course.
> HonEel lived and acted in the realm of History, within Time. She did great
> things and is worshipped for it.
> BUT the magic that she used was not created in History. It is from the God
> Time, the Hero Wars.
> To a Lunar heroquester generally goes into the Hero Wars in order to
> acquire (sometimes to prove) her great magic. But she has to return to the
> "real" world and use it to impress her worshippers.
OK, so lets' get specific. I want to write a myth about the three
sisters (Corn, Beans,
and Squash). One of those "how this came to be" myths, explaining
why we grow those
three together. (Yes, I am shamelessly ripping off real world
mythology here.) I can write
it in that ethereal non-time time that most myths appear to be in? I
can have HonEel, as
mother of Corn, talking with Corn, Beans, and Squash as goddesses? (I
don't know their
names off the top of my head.)
> Not really, sort of, but not quite.
> Eventually, perhaps, othe people can visit your famous action in Alkoth
> (or wherever) to get your magic, but mostly they will go to the Well of
> Shining Heads where you first got in, in the Storm Age.
> This is explained in more detail in ILH2.
Good, because that didn't help me much. :-)
> "Daughter of Issaries" is an outsider perspective. It is a metaphor for
> her position to the pantheon.
Ahhh.. Much better. I wasn't liking that intepretation at all.
And since even from a lunar point of view, she doesn't REPLACE
Issaries (he doesn't
vanish or anything), I wasn't liking the "she gets everything he had" idea.
> That statement is absolutely untrue. Yanafil Tarnils obtained the powers
> of resurrection himself, based on the knowledge and truths he lerned rom
> Teelo Imara.
I always thought his whole confrontation with Humakt and resurrection was on his own.
> > And so you say the same thing here. He both was an wasn't always a god?
>
> Now you are talking like a Lunar! "We are all immortal!"
Didn't you know I am a White Moonie subversive?
> Irippin Ontor was never a worshipper of Lhankor Mhy.
Good to know.
> She was a powerful shaman from the Before Dark Tradition.
So the tradition predates her? That's interesting.
> > But I'm not sure I buy the "they get all the myths of the person they spun
> > off of" theory.
>
> You were correct to not purchase it.
Whew. Good. I'm tight on cash.
> She Who Waits was Sedenya, waiting to be recognized and empowered. HonEel
> tricked the Tarshites (who were willing to be tricked) into substituting
> Her into their rites. But Sedenya is NOT Ernalda, and Ernalda is not
> REALLY She Who Waits either.
Ahh.. Interesting. To be honest, I sort of got the feeling that She
Who Waits, by her
very nature, allows for replacement by whoever is most useful for the
Lunars. In this
case, identifying her as Ernalda. By not claiming herself as Sedenya
before the
apotheosis, she gets to be substituted into other places.
Mind you, until now I didn't even know that she really WAS Sedenya, I
had a half a mind
she might have been Arachne Solara. *shrug*
> Under the Red Moon is just about finished, much more than it had been and,
> I am sure, ready to please everyone. Please be patient.
Am perfectly happy to be patient. Was really just trying to figure
out how to write this
myth I got an idea for.
> The Fan Policy explanations are just about ready too, and will be posted
> to the site today or tomorrow.
Woo hoo!
LC
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