> I am working on a community questionnaire for my game set in the
> Western Reaches. If anyone has design philosophy suggestions or
> advice I would love to hear it!
Here's some fairly old notes of mine re: a hypothetical Malkioni questionnaire along the lines of the Orlanthi clan-gen one. Derived from a discussion with Greg Stafford and David Dunham back in 1998 or thereabouts, hence the indents and references. Hope it helps with design philosophy.
I know it isn't directly relevant to Carmania (the West Reaches); hopefully, suitable questions will suggest themselves from a reading of the history (why did we follow Syranthir, were our preferred allies the Spolites/Pelandans/Dara Happans, etc.; were the most admirable Shahs the White/Black/Lion/Bull types; when did we convert to the Lunar Way; what does our wealth derive from; what's the most impressive thing we've done recently?).
To the archives!
David asked:
> I'm trying to figure out which Malkioni lived where, to come up
> with the equivalent of the Orlanthi clan questionnaire from Opal
> or Hero Wars.
I think you're looking way too far back. IMO (and I've been thinking about this a lot), the decision points are:
NB: there should be some "skip a bit" questions, as in the Orlanthi version, for those people who converted to Malkionism inside Time (e.g. no Land of Logic ancestry, no Ice Age Malkioni experiences). We might give standard "quickie" descriptions (and scores) for e.g. Fronelan Hsunchen from the outskirts of Akem, Seshnegi indigenes ruled by the Malkioni colonists, etc.
The further into Time you go, the more you'll need to either channel or diversify your answers. (FRONELAN characters will be experiencing Talar, and Syranthir, and Siglat's Dream; SESHNEGI characters will have Gerlant, and the Return to Righteousness, and Rokar the Prophet; SAFELSTRAN characters will have Arkat, and the Stygian Empire, and modern henotheism etc.).
I am not yet sure how to do this: are we looking at a flowchart with clear branches, or a single culture book (and char-gen path) per publication, pretty much reusing the early bits (e.g. stuff you'd have in common from before Time whether you lived in Akem or Seshneg at the Dawn), which I understand is the plan for the Orlanthi Books.
Anyway, historical decision points would include:
Greg wrote:
> The Brithini had periodic explusions where all of the people that
> didn't fit in just packed up and left. Several occured since the
> Dawn, and many more before.
The key expulsion IMO is when the Brithini chucked Malkion out. This is their Exodus, their Expulsion from Mecca, the Prophet being without honour in his own land. If you're a modern Malkioni, this is almost certainly one of the fundamental things in your mythic background. (NB: your ancestors could have converted to Malkionism later, from sundry Hsunchen or Pagan peoples; or they could have been expelled from Brithos in one of the subsequent clear-outs, say around the time of Arkat). To me, that's one of the Big and Colourful questions in this questionnaire.
Cheers, Nick
Greg wrote:
> Before writing up a dozen variants on this list, let look at the
> WAY they will present their background. That is, I don't think that
> it's done by clan.
Obviously not. I don't even think it's necessarily done by family, or by town or city or county or kingdom. I think a lot of this can be interpreted at individual level -- you find out the parts of the Scriptures and History of the Malkioni which bear most meaning to an individual player character.
Some people hear stories from the Bible and come away as Priests. Some come away as Crusaders. Some come away as Inquisitors. Most come away as nominal Christians who know the outlines of the Bible.
I'd suggest that whereas the Orlanthi "clan generation" questionnaire works at a communal level -- in which everyone buys into the collective answers -- the Malkioni background questionnaire could (in many parts) work at a personal level.
> I am thinking that ordinary people won't bother to know much more
> than their origins since the Abiding Book, of maybe since the Dawn,
> oh, maybe more than that, but certainly not before Malkion the
> Founder.
Absolutely. This is (I hope) what my questionnaire dwells on. Remember, Greg, that the "clan generation" questionnaire is not only a character development and background tool -- it also introduces new players to the most important mythology and history and "buzzwords" for their chosen Gloranthan culture. This is why I found it so easy to knock together that outline -- my 1994 "History of Malkionism" was meant to achieve *exactly* the same goal.
If you read the Malkioni questionnaire, you should have been exposed to EVERYTHING that works at "headline level" for the Malkioni. You'll have read the names of all the Prophets (in context, and interpretation of what they did or said -- "Which of Hrestol's deeds impressed you most?" + a list); you'll have read the stories of all the Saints ("Your chapel contains a shrine to one of the Malkioni Saints. Was it:" + a list); you'll have learned the outline of Malkioni myth and history from the Land of Logic through the Ice Age, Grey Age, Dawning, Crusade Against Chaos, Middle Sea Empire, and on to modern times (where the questionnaire trifurcates). You'll know that krjalki are evil monsters, that sorcerers are amoral wizards, that everyone agrees the God Learners were BAD. Et cetera.
>> NB: there should be some "skip a bit" questions, as in the >> Orlanthi version,
> Some things say, "you did this."
That, too. I take it for granted that this questionnaire won't allow you to generate a Brithini, Vadeli or Waertagi character -- though it *will* highlight where those races "split off" from your ancestors (as I've showed).
But what I was referring to was the kind of Orlanthi clans which didn't have any Green Age mythology, or only joined Orlanth after the Dawning. The ones where you'd skip the history of the Land of Logic and the Exodus because your oldest ancestors lived in Seshneg not Brithos; the ones where you'd skip the Grey Age and Hrestol because your remote ancestors were Hsunchen converted after the Dawn; you get the picture?
>> Are we looking at a flowchart with clear branches, or a single >> culture book (and char-gen path) per publication, pretty much >> reusing the early bits (e.g. stuff you'd have in common from >> before Time whether you lived in Akem or Seshneg at the Dawn), >> which I understand is the plan for the Orlanthi Books.
> Probably the latter.
Handy. But we can still build it as the former, eh?
>> Anyway, historical decision points would include:
> All I the books will focus on at first is NOW. With that in mind:
I don't quite understand this: can you please amplify what you mean?
>> A. Attitude to Hrestol
> This is pretty much determined by geography now.
I disagree. At least, if it *is* (partially) determined by geography, there are also "breaks" by caste. Knights might go for the Questing, Wizards for the Martyrdom, Lords for the Serpent Kings, Peasants for the 'broke the Caste System'. I don't want a monolithic system where nobody in Rokari lands can admire Hrestol for breaking the horrible system that has since been re-imposed on them, or where everyone in Hrestoli lands has to love him for this -- and for *nothing* else.
>> B. Attitude to Nysalor (missionaries in the West: like the Lunar >> Missionaries question from Sartar, this is really asking "why did >> you distrust them" or "were you taken in?"
> Centuries ago. Important for CharGen in wizards.
But at least a mention is important for everyone's historical background. Or you'll have Malkioni players who don't know what Nysalor and the Crusade Against Chaos were all about. I fully agree that this isn't in the same depth as the Lunar question: it might even be a "did Nysalor get to your country?" question:
>> C. Attitude to Arkat (good while he lasted, never trust a >> Brithini, don't know, listened too much to pagans, followed him >> to the end, joined the Dark Empire, beaten up by Trolls, etc.)
> I think most Malkioni agree with all that list.
So? That's like ditching the Dragonkill War question from the Orlanthi list. One way of letting Gloranthan newbies know that most Malkioni agree with all that list is, surely, to *present* them with the list and let them make a pick from it. You'll get information out of it (this lord hates Pagans, that knight hates Trolls, the wizard doesn't trust Brithini, and the sneaky fellow at the back quite admires Arkat...).
Isn't this worth having?
>> E. Attitude to the Downfall of the God Learners (like the >> Dragonkill War: this ranges from "they were impious" through >> "they were careless" to the classic, "it's lucky we were living >> in Heortland at the time!")
> Again, most people will have a set attitude about this, with all
> the above.
But they will know that all the above exist by reading the list, Greg. And the referee will know which players are archtraditionalists, which are scripture-thumpers, which approve of prudent sorceries, etc. by getting individual answers to these questions.
> Please note: it's important that we adopte the "official" attitude
> here that the GL were a bad thing, etc.
Absolutely. You need never remind me to do this. The late God Learners were degenerate blaspheming impious demon-worshippers who deserved whatever they got. Please note that none of my examples says "What a pity" -- they all blame the GLs for what happened.
>> F. various paths for Third Age stuff: this would be about >> Rokar and Bailifes for Seshnegi, civic pride and independence >> for Safelstrans, or the Bad Old Days, the Ban and Idealism for >> Loskalmi.
> Again, geography determines most of this.
At a macro level, yes: that's why there are "various paths". But the events of recent Western history can be interpreted in loads of different ways, and by including these in the questionnaire we expose all this to the new players. If instead you give each player a sealed section of recent history which doesn't allow them to participate in or understand the choices and events and value judgements that are being made -- why, that's perversely different to the Orlanthi clangen system.
>> G. Recent history, local enemies, trouble at hand, Opening of >> the Oceans, attitude to inquisitions or heretics or crusades or >> KoW or King vs. Pope struggles or anything else topical that >> springs to mind.
> These are going to be presented in the Regional Books, and also
> overviewed in the Introduction Book.
> Too.
I assume your "Too" means you agree that they belong here in the questionnaire. As I understand it, the Orlanthi "clan generation" questionnaire acts as a guide, outline and index to the Orlanthi mythology and history which will be fully presented elsewhere. If you run the clan-gen questionnaire for Orlanthi, you'll have at least heard about Ernalda, and Uz, and the Dragonkill War, and the coming of the Lunars, and Starbrow's Rebellion, before you start play.
I want the Malkioni character qnr to achieve the same thing from a Western viewpoint. I want players who've read through it to know that Vadeli are Evil, and that Malkion died saving the world in the Ice Age, that Hrestol was the Second Prophet, and that the God Learners were OK at first, but anathema at the end. I want them to know (if Seshnegi) about Rokar, and Bailifes the Hammer, and the Whyte Wyzards, the coming clash between King and Pope, and the rise of the Inquisition and Iconoclasm. If they're Hrestoli, they'll hear about Snodal, Siglat, the Ban, the Thaw, and the Kingdom of War. Et cetera. I want them to learn that there are a whole bunch of common Western attitudes, but I also want them to argue about (and indeed sign up to) their preferred interpretations.
Your stroke of genius in the "Epic" Orlanthi clan-gen system was that it *involved* players in the history and mythology of their characters -- remember our enthusiasm when the Tales crowd (and we'd all read through the system in draft beforehand) actually got to play through it?
I want this to be the same, for the West.
> I've assumed this is one of the "Givens." "Your ancestors were
> expelled from Danmalastan, loyal to their Founder and Prophet.
> You settled outside Malkonwal, and were left behind in its
> Rapture." etc.
Yeah, but let's at least talk through it.
RW example: "Your saviour, Jesus Christ, was crucified in Judaea. Who do you blame?"
Y'see?
>> (NB: your ancestors could have converted to Malkionism later, >> from sundry Hsunchen or Pagan peoples; or they could have been >> expelled from Brithos in one of the subsequent clear-outs, say >> around the time of Arkat). To me, that's one of the Big and >> Colourful questions in this questionnaire.
> I lost the pronoun. To what does "that's" refer?
> I thnk you mean, "Your conversion to (modern) Malkionism."
Sorry, I was using parenthetic parentheses (e.g. skip over the guff about ancestors, and continue with the main thread). The sentence actually read:
> The key expulsion IMO is when the Brithini chucked Malkion out.
> This is their Exodus, their Expulsion from Mecca, the Prophet
> being without honour in his own land. If you're a modern Malkioni,
> this is almost certainly one of the fundamental things in your
> mythic background. To me, *that's* one of the Big and Colourful
> questions in this questionnaire.
i.e. "that" is Malkion's expulsion from Brithos.
You are taking the line: "We know that happened, ergo there's no choice."
I am saying instead: "We know that's really important to the Malkioni, so let's dwell on it and let them *interpret* what happened."
Difference of approach. But my way will have people talking about and noticing the great events of Malkioni history; your way will mean they skip those and focus instead on issues which you think are trivial enough to allow them a free choice.
That's not the way the Orlanthi system works.
Cheers, Nick
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