From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_...>
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:18:24 +0100 (BST)

Peter Metcalfe:

> Me>> Considering that the Pentans have been revealed to be
> >> fetish heavy for quite some time (look at the Pentan
> >> warrior pic in the Genertela Book), it looks alright
> >> to me.
> >My turn to be confused: what's this to do with whether the
> >Grazers integrate or not? (I mean 'bodily' integration: I don't
> >think that fetish-creation is very similar.)
> Fetish creation is just a valid part of animism as integration
> is.

I didn't state or imply otherwise. I was fairly specific about what I meant by 'pure animism', or 'animism classic': pick a better term if you like (though Greg has certainly been spotted claiming that 'integration' is the core method of 'animism').

> Therefore
> since the Grazers are fetish-heavy, it follows that there is
> nothing wrong with them being animist in the stafford sense.

I entirely agree they're 'animist in the Stafford sense' (i.e., an extremely broad one); my point is, are they 'integrationist-animist', if you will. (And I strongly suspect they're not, unless it's simply a game-mechanic for more crypto-theism.)

> Hence whatever criticisms you can make about the rules and
> the philosophy behind it, I fail to see why treating the
> Grazers as pure animists is a sign that the rules and the
> philosophy are broken in this particular case.

I'm not saying the rules per se are 'broken', rather:

  1. that they're not the best of all possible rules, in all possible worlds, because they draw 'catgories' of magic that are wider than would be most useful;
  2. their application to the Grazers is highly suspect.

David Dunham:

> It's not clear to me why most people wouldn't actually use the
> rulebook to play Grazers, rather than worry about what's pure animism
> or not. According to the keywords that Greg and I wrote, Grazers use
> fetishes or integrate, depending on circumstances (such as age group
> or the spirit in question).

I don't doubt it. However, that hardly address the point of whether this rules treatment is 'correct' or not, which is the basic thrust of the thread.


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