Re: Digest Number 385

From: JEFFREY KYER <jeff.kyer_at_...>
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 20:22:54 -0000

wrote:
>
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:10:55 -0000
> > From: "Erik " <epweissengruber_at_h...>
> > Subject: Re: Fetch as victim of AP loss? (Was AP bids)
> >
> > We have been discussing a series of related questions, and
> > trying to
> > extrapolate rules from them
> >
> > > > > >Can fetches be hurt like followers?
> > > > > >How might an opponent target the fetch, and not the shaman?
> > > > Can one Integrate other Shamens Fetches if one drives them to
> > >>>>totaldefeat?
> >
> > But a recent comment has clarified the role of shamanism in
> > Glorantha
> > and the HW game:
> >
> >
> > > I would say no. Or perhaps No.
> > >
> > > A fetch is a part of the shaman. I'd suggest looking at
> > the writeup
> > on
> > > Fetechs just to see what they really are?
> > >
> > > A great spirit might be able to strip a shaman of his
> > fetch but...
> > I do
> > > not think that you can steal it and integrate it, sorry.
> >
> > Jeff's response clears up the anthropological and canonical
> > (Gregopological?) nature of shamanism. Your fetch isn't
> > property or
> > a tool you own -- it is a part of yourself that you have
> > recovered or
> > discovered. You may have fasted, taken drugs, journeyed to the
> > Otherworld, but the fetch is an aspect of YOU, not a spirit you
> > enslave.
>
> And how does that stop me [I.e another Shaman] capturing it. Its
still
> a spirit[admittedly one with a physical manifestation, but Anaxials
> roster is clear in allowing the binding or integration of embodied
> spirits.]. It's just your spirit and if your careless enough to
leave
> it around where I can stick it in a fetish or consume its substance
> then you should be stuffed.

Um, no. Its like binding a spirit of someone who's still alive. You have to kill them first I would be thinking -- at the very least.  

> The sentance previous to the one saying it is part of you also says
it
> is a spirit which aids you out of a sense of love or duty, which
> doesn't sound like an indivisible part of you and the paragraph
> starting Fetch implies that they are not all the same.

See below. A fetch is best described as a part of you you didn't know you had... until it woke up and decided to help you. It comes from within but may take help to awaken (which is why sometimes they require the assitance of some rather big and powerful sprits)

Perhaps I should re-read on what fetches are, but I am pretty certain that what you are talking about is a spirit *ally* rather than a fetch. The two are not the same thing.

I am quite happy to have someoen steal a spirit ally... It *is* a spirit.    

> The rules on spirit combat make it clear that one can enslave a
shaman
> through spirit combat if he fails his escape

A spirit can take over the SHAMAN.... not the fetch. Its called "Possession," I believe and generally requires a body for the spirit to take over.  

> > Onto the RULES:
> > any extended conflict will have permanent repercussions. So if
the
> > shaman sufferes a major defeat, then you could penalize the
> > fetch .
>
> And Spirit Combat [HW:RiG p209] says a Shaman can bind or integrate
> spirits he defeats.

Ah, not quite. But a fetch is not exactly a spirit as was stated. YOu'd have to kill the shaman at the very least. See below.  

> > It seems that the rules (once again) are comprehensive enough to
> > render into NARRATIVE terms a SIMULATION of Gloranthan reality.
>
> But what exactly Gloranthan reality is is somewhat in debate.

The Gloranthan Reality was, I believe, already stated on www.Herowars.com from Greg: You can't integrate a fetch...

We've been told that even a Great Spirit can't take a fetch away (unless it awoke it in the first place) and can "only" destroy it at best.

Seems reasonably plain enough so far -- to me at least?  

> Not that Integrating or binding someone else's fetch is a nice thing
> to do, but there are some very unpleasant people out there.
>
> Adam

Because its an integral part of you. It can't be torn free or severed. I think that other posts along this line have tried to clarify matters.

Hope this helps,

Jeff