Re: Carmanians and Viziers

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:09:19 PDT

Martin Laurie:

>I didn't think you were denying the existence priesthoods, rather were
>emphasising the supremacy of sorcerers over theists in pure >numbers terms.

When I talk about sorcerers, I'm talking only about the Vizier caste where _most_ of them are sorcerers. No other carmanian is meant to practice sorcery because they do not have the moral fibre for it.

>For me the Viziers have
>always been a priest caste, not a predominately sorcerous one. Any priest
>is a vizier and is therefore subordinate in religious matters to the Magi.
>That is how I've seen it.

The Glorantha-Intro does point out that priests to the gods belong to the same caste as that god's worshippers. Therefore Priests are not Viziers.

>This does lead to interesting situations if you have a priest of a >Hazar
>cult. Or a Carmanoi cult.

The Priests of those cults are Hazars and Carmanoi respectively.

> >Most of which are generally regarded as wizard's tasks in the West
> >and are carried out by sorcerous Viziers in Carmania.

>But not entirely. For example, the Irripi Ontor cult is strong in
> >Carmania, and accepted as being of Idovanus yet this scholarly cult is
>theistic but still has to be in the Vizier caste.

I do not believe that Irripi Ontor is "strong" in Carmania. He did not even convert the Carmanians to the Lunar Way while he still lived and the conversion was accomplished by someone who did not worship him.

I generally see the Irripi Viziers as serving Houses of Heartlander origin or the office of the Padishah's Eye and not Carmanian Houses. They still have the rank of Vizier, but most Carmanians would prefer to have a "proper vizier" serving their house.

>How does a Humakti warrior-priest who is
>also a noble fit into this? I think they would be Carmanoi, as this >is
>the senior caste.

Why would Carmanoi worship a war god? They are the leaders of the House, not generals. If he was any good at war, he would have been raised a Hazar. Carmanoi are chosen rather than born.

>As for a warrior-priest, I think they would be Vizier but

As a priest of a war god, they are Hazars.

>The Hazar caste also shows this division. It has fat merchants,
> >obsequious bankers and violent killers within its bounds.

I think the merchants and bankers are largely rent-collectors (filfulling their caste obligations of overseeing land but with suitable loopholes in the Laws - they are allowed to demand more rent from a bank than a cobbler) and that the dirty work of handling filthly lucre is done by Pelandan servants.

--Peter Metcalfe

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