At 03:48 AM 6/20/2002 +0100, you wrote:
> (all that follows is very much IMHO and IMG - no offense is meant at any
>point)
None taken from me. Please understand that I do not wish to correct anyone,
and I agree that the statements I am about to make are the "norm," from my
perspective.
>>Well, other than ordinary people crossing the street to avoid him
>>maybe yes.
>I'm afraid this is precicely what I am trying to object to (sorry) ...
The "crossing the street to avoid him" comes from me, and my perspective of
what a Humakti is.
>>A resheathed Humakti is no longer part of their family. They would
>>no longer live with their family but instead would live wherever the
>>chief put them. This is very unlike the life of a "normal" Heortling.
>
>and this differs from the normal duties of a huscarl?
Yes, absolutely.
A huscarl is very much a part of his family.
>>bear in mind that abandoning
>>family and clan is one of the worst crimes in Heortling society
>
>but they are not "abandoning family and clan", they are serving them by
>taking a ritual and legal role essential in Heortling society...
They are abandoning their family.
They are dead men.
The are men living in death, only temporarily here to serve Death.
>>There are both emotional
>>and ritual bonds holding Heortling society together (cf wyters),
>>these would tend to reinforce one another yet Humakti are pretty much
>>entirely excluded from the whole ritual side except as outsiders
>>(they cannot benefit from communal worship although they do still
>>take part).
>
>but I think they _do_ benifit from the emotional and ritual bonds of society
>even if they do so indirrectly - for a real world parrallel, everyone hates
>coppers and they consequently live largely outside of the rest of society
>(only dating/marrying/drinking and socialising with other coppers), but
>(unfortunately IMO and this is not a topic for this list but I hope you get
>my point) they are a part of society (and gain power and in certaun areas
>prestige there-from). Like Humakti, they do a job not many want to do
>(although a Heortling would feel that the job is a neccessary one, a view
>not felt by myself regarding our boys in blue..)
I think you are under estimating Humakti bonds with death.
Cops are not working for death. They re more like the huscarls.
>>Many (the Hoods faction) are quite able and willing
>>to live a normal(ish) life but that is really just an example of the
>>fact that fanatics do not always have to be obvious and anti-social.
>
>well, professional soldiers to this day in the RW regularily do things that
>I would consider fanatical, anti-social, obsesive and quite frankly
>down-right inhumane but they are still considered "normal" (well, at least
>not too abnormal) by most of society (and societies) (and even more so in
>the past (maybe))...
And that is the ways that the normal Orlanthi warriors would be viewed:
soldiers who do the unfortunate things like killing for the good of
society, guarding the home and so on.
But Humakti are dead men.
They cut themselves off from society.
>>Of course the character who thought he was just invoking a legal
>>escape clause when joining the Humakt cult might make an interesting
>>one, he might find he's got more than he bargained for and there is
>>only one honorable way out of the cult
>
>I'm sorry but I think you are missing my point. A proffesional
>soldier/warrior/killer will as a matter of course do things (like killing
>people) that his family would normally be responsible for in normal
>Heortling law. Now a soldier/warrior/killer who really wants to take his job
>seriously had better find a way to avoid this...
An Orlanthi huscarl who kills his enemies normally undergoes special rites
to go out and kill. When he is done he undergoes rites to cleanse him and
be re-entered into normal society.
A Humakti does not undergo those rites to kill. He can, will and does do it
anytime, for any reason when his god tells him to do it. He does not
undergo the cleansing afterwards.
>This is not a case of a few blaggards trying to avoid justice, it is a
>decision essential for any dedicated weilder of death in Heortling society
>i.e. proffesional killers i.e. Humakti.
Humakti are not just professional killers. They are dead men.
>Your basic Heortling warrior is more in it for the honour, mead, boasting
>oppertunities and the admiring women...
Some, certainly. But there is also duty to be faced.
>( in the case of Uroxi, chaos scum
>tend to get short shift in court when suing for weregild)...
Uroxi are another sect/cult that lives outside the normal boundaries of law.
>I apologise to those here that like Humakti as twisted dysfunctional psychos
>the lot 'em, and I'm sure plenty of that type do exist (just as they do in
>the RW army),
Twisted and dysfunctional is only one way. These are people who are dead
men. They live with death, they re life in death, they are death in life.
They are often very sad men who are obsessed with the reality that death
takes everyone. They are often men who have been resurrected and seen they
are dead men. They are not all psychopathic murderers for the sake of
killing (though those guys are probably all Humakti.)
>but IMO they are a lot less interesting than the basically
>sane individuals (with family, wife and kids, who chose to deal death as a
>profession (e.g. professional soldiers, mercenaries etc in the real world)
In my Glorantha the guys you are describing are the normal warriors.
Orlanthi warriors. Men who have taken the profession for whatever reason,
but who enjoy life.
Humakt = death.
>Turning them into cartoon charactertures does not do them justice (IMO) ...
I agree: they are not cartoon characters. They are dead men, troubled and
unable to escape their obsession.
>(BTW, I personally think anyone who joins the /frex SAS/ really IS a psycho
>but not in the one dimensional "cross the street, Yojimbo like,
Off topic, Yojimbo is not a Humakti type. He is a pretty honorable and
troubled man.
>zombified
>weilder of death and witherer of crops/lions" etc way often presented on
>this list (and apologies to Nic whose comments I used to try and explain my
>views)..
I respect your opinion, mind you. But in my Glorantha Humakt = death. He's
not the normal warrior, he's not the guy who does what he has to. He is a
dead man, working for Death.
>Just my .. er .. roll of dosh...
And the above statements are, of course, mine too.
YGMV. YGWV. YGDV.
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