Um, are they? Would Uroxi be able to detect the average Char-Un as chaos?
>I do not mind imposing my own morality on my own word. I will categorically
>state that rape is wrong under any circumstances, that wartime rape is as
>wrong as any other and that if the Char Un (or anyone else) systematically
>engage in the act then they are going to turn into broos.
I'd rather not be presented as an apologist for rape, even in a fictional context. I think the question here is that there are acts that are evil (and which may feed certain chaos beings in some sense) but that are not chaotic in and of themselves.
So, we have the Tusk Riders/Aramites (to stop flogging the Char-Un for a moment) who kill, maim, and torture outsiders and their fellows with enthusiasm. From their "the strong over all" philosophy, I would not be surprised if there isn't a catalog of other abuses hidden in there as well -- rape and cannibalism among them. No non-Aramite would hesitate to label them evil (even Evil), and pogroms against Tusk Riders are not only acceptable, they are probably a political necessity for their neighbors. But they are not, despite their nasty habits, chaos (at least not many of them). I would not like to Narrate for a Tusk Rider game, but I would cheerfully use the Tusk Riders as villains and try to present them as "normal" for their culture, however unpleasant they might be.
Similarly, while I view the idea of killing and eating children with immense horror, Uz certainly do not, when those children are enlo.
So certainly there is some degree of "cultural relativity" in what is evil and what is chaotic. Most cultures share a similar enough set of values that the Aramites and Char-Un are seen as horrifically twisted societies, ghastly enemies and chancy allies. This is one of the paradoxes of the Lunar Empire -- an enlightened society of peace, freedom, learning, and plenty that supports itself by often unspeakable means. The understanding that chaos is not necessarily evil and evil is not necessarily chaos frees the Empire to do a great deal of good and to redeem many otherwise lost beings. It also allows the weak and corrupt to sink to much greater levels of depravity. Before I get accused of being soft on Heortlings, I'll point out that either side can ally the Tusk Riders in WB&RM/Dragon Pass. No one has a lock on the moral high ground.
> >I also assume that the cannibalism of Maran and the
>>Cannibal Cult, however holy and acceptable, contributes to the
>>ongoing presence of ogres in the world by strengthening the Ogre
>>Ancestor.
>
>I agree.
This, I think is a very important point -- there are many things in Glorantha that serve "good" and even "righteous" purposes that also feed the chaos that gnaws at Glorantha's roots. Societies like the Char-Un, that revel in so much unpleasant behavior, may be able to spare their people the worst of what they are doing, but they increase misery everywhere by their actions. The Marani are a similar, though far lesser, problem. Ana Gor (yes, I know, she's not chaos) will always be around not only because she is the Death of Havan Vor, but because people will always have a use for human sacrifice in Glorantha, and while they do, she is worshipped.
Peter Larsen
Powered by hypermail