On 15 Jul 2004 at 15:48, Joerg Baumgartner wrote:
> > OK, I'll make a final call on that if it becomes directly relevant.
> > But it's clear it's down that way. That's fine. I like the logic of
> > Durengard, although he could always have been crowned there
> > and done his day-to-day running of the place from Mt Passant.
> > There's plenty of examples in history of the coronation needing
> > to be someplace that is no longer the active capital.
>
> In my book, that's why one would have the Malkioni coronation rites in Mt
> Passant...
Don't know enough of the history. Mt Passant would be more Malkioni?
> Actually sitting before the walls of Karse for a while.
Is there anything official on the seige and how it was conducted? Since it would be the immediate backstory of the game, I'd like to have details. If it's all very vague, I'll tweak to my pleasure, but I like working in GAG elements as much as possible.
> The old city of Karse (now abandoned, somewhat upriver, atop an escarpment
> that used to be the river bank before the Leaden Serpent blocked the
> Creek-Stream River) was famous for its fortifications which allowed the
> mainland Pelaskites to survive the Greater Darkness. When the new city of
> Karse was founded, the protective deity was invited over to reside in the
> new fortifications (which IMG resemble those of Nochet, another site
> famous for sitting out the Greater Darkness). Given inspiration from the
> Whitewall List, I suspect that Panaxles the Architect had a hand in
> creating Old Karse and/or Nochet.
Any accepted info on the Guardian of Karse?
> Fazzur being the Wideread, I doubt he would have considered using Chaos
> allies against such a magical protection. Having Moirades play his "King
> of Dragon Pass" card for dragonewt allies seems more appropriate.
Damn Dragonnewts. :-)
> > (Fairly bloodlessly, if I recall correctly)
>
> As far as the non-fighting populace is concerned, yes. Prior to the
> dragonewt assault, there were Kethaelan contingents (IMO Caladrans or
> Porthomekans) within the city, but they seem to have left when the Lunar
> sea force turned up. The dragonewts which took the walls slaughtered all
> identifiable defenders but spared everyone else.
Hmmm... How much of this is official, and how much just generally accepted? (I know I've seen the "fleet from Corflu" a couple of times.)
> It does seem to be on the longish side. But then, almost everything on the
> Wiki is negotiable, especially side issues.
>
> What could have taken Fazzur that long?
>
> 1. getting the dragonewts hired after the surprise assault failed to take
> the fortifications. (The 'newts marching past Whitewall could make an
> interesting siege portent, too - cries of "Remember Boldhome" etc.)
That's a nice touch. I certainly like the idea of an initial break against the walls, and then bringing in something like the 'newts.
> 2. getting the Corflu fleet on its way and to the mouth of the Marzeel River.
That seems eminently reasonable. (That is one thing that seems to be consistently mentioned. There was a seige, and the turning point was the arrival of a fleet that came up the bay.)
> 3. feeding and housing his expeditional corps outside of Karse. (I want to
> set a few cameos in that period...)
I was certainly thinking that since he stormed in and didn't get his main battles, Fazzur is suddenly faced with a seige at Whitewall and a seige at Karse. With that situation, he gets very patient in setting up his troops, expecting a long haul at either. Karse goes fairly quickly, and then Whitewall becomes a huge problem.)
> In either case, there is a communication and negotiation lag, even though
> fast overland transportation could manage the route unencumbered and
> unhindered within a few days.
Lots of seiges were conducted like that. An initial assault, lots of negotiation, then another assault, etc. Just waiting the city out is a time honoured tactic.
> > That also makes the take over more a recent thing, which may work for the
> > game, since it means no one has yet established real connections with
> the new Lunar
> > overlords, allowing my players to make whatever moves they want. That's
> fine.
>
> I'd say give or take a few weeks as suits your game best.
I'll tweak according to what will work. This gives me a ballpark, though.
> > Exactly the sort of thing she might be going through. And isn't Rikard
> trying to impose
> > Rokari monotheism on the "too tolerant" Aeolians? Or did I misunderstand
> that?
>
> IMG some of Rikard's followers/allies have this as their agenda, most
> importantly the Rokari bishop of Nochet (of the du Tumerine family of
> Nolos/Pasos) who seeks to expand his parish drastically. I see Rikard
> himself as dependent on the bishop and his magical support, but gnashing
> his teeth at the effect on the morale of his native supporters. Also, in
> my game the northern Aeolians (a minority among Andrinic Heortlings,
> concentrated in the cities and around a few local holy places) are the
> main victims, whereas in the south there is a contrary movement where
> Rokari become enamoured by the "romantic barbarian" notions of the
> Aeolians. Sheriff of Nottingham and Abbot in Karhend...
That's cute. Since I don't intend to focus this story in Rikard's lands, that level of detail probably isn't necessary for me. I always prefer having multiple levels of these things, so I'd lean towards something more like your interpretation. As it is now, the players mostly think of Rikard as a crusader who is stifling the Aeolians and their "pagan heresy". If anyone takes a background that overlaps that, I'll probably stick in this much more nuanced version.
> I'll try to summarize it on the Whitewall Wiki, then.
Thanks, that would be nice. Not crucial though. If she picks something in that vein/region/time, I'll sign up for the info.
> Most of the other original sins/apocalyptic punishments are harder.
> Spreading a plague on purpose always is bad, and this or mass poisoning
> are probably atrocity fodder most everywhere. Application of moral evil
> slips into Vadeli territory - Lokarnos has an extensive link list for
> Vadeli atrocities.
I'll have to go look at that, my Vadeli knowledge is sorely lacking.
> I'm not sure how far we want the Aztec Flower War parallel to go - eating
> human sacrifices after tossing them into the Volcano offers some technical
> difficulties, anyway. I do think that the Caladrans regularly do things to
> neighbors from their own culture which might count as atrocities
> elsewhere. There is a reason why these comparatively primitive savages are
> feared in Kethaela. Not as bad as the Tarsh Exiles, but definitely hard on
> their neighbors.
Oh, I definitely got that impression. Still, as I mentioned, she doesn't want to be comfortable with her actions, but viewed from the outside as having committed an atrocity. She wants to have done something that she herself considers an atrocity.
As always, you've all been great for helping with this kind of thing. :)
LC
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