Hmm, come to think of it, that's probably another reason why I don't llike films much. The main one is that they're just too slow, but you're right, that's probably why I tend to end up feeling they're superficial.
> In PBEM, both narrator and players attempt to keep
> the number of
> messages per scene as small as possible.
?? Could have fooled me...
> The "why" of character
> behaviour becomes as important as the "how".
That may also be a nar/sim thing? To some extent, at least.
> Memory flashbacks,
> expression of emotions and attitudes get
> communicated which in
> face-to-face mode would interrupt game flow. In
> PBEM, the same
> snippets are meta-information for the narrator to
> extrapolate character behaviour.
Well, they're also a lot of the point of the game... those *are* the major contests. Using your "loyal" to as your primary defence against an attack/temptation, say.
> > No, most books I read the viewpoint is internal to
> one of the
> > characters, possibly swaps between different
> characters. So
> > you get the internal feelings of that one, plus
> the bias they
> > put on the events they're viewing.
>
> How do you communicate these in a face-to-face
> gaming situation?
Trying to remember - it's been a long time since I did much F2F gaming. A couple of recent campaigns I've been in, that was either by email chat between sessions, or as sort of third-person description. "OK, Valensta's pretty scared of the broo, but she really wants to prove herself, and she thinks he's rather cute, even if he is a Lunar. And he isn't one of the Lunars who did that to her little sister, after all. So I reckon I can get augments off Brave and "wants to prove herself", a negative off "hate Lunars", and a +1 of her "likes the new guard" I bought last session. Oh, and "hates Chaos"."
Which makes me go "aargh", and wonder how to rewrite it for any chronicles!
> > Now swap viewpoints, get the bias of a different
> character on
> > the same events, learn about both of them from it
> (and possibly
> > about the events). That sort of thing.
>
> > Assuming we're talking about fiction, not history,
> of course.
>
> Even there a subset only - theatre plays, radio
> plays, dialogue based
> fiction all have little to no internal dialogue.
Yes,as I say, plays, like films, are limited. even if written by Shakespare. I'll stick to books, the pictures are better.
> > Yes, that was very clear. As I said at the start
> of all this, this
> > is comment, not criticism, quite obviously in the
> case of your
> > campaign chronicles they're not readable fiction
> because that was
> > never their intention. They just mirrored the
> "Saga Style" so
> > perfectly that they could be used as an example of
> it.
>
> Then why are you asking about the purpose of a saga?
Because they were the things I was discussing? The ones held up as an example of fun things to read?
>but the purpose is simply to remind
> the reader
> > which year we're talking about, by reference to
> (then) well-known events.
>
> "It happened when Cyrenius was governor in Syria..."
>
> not limited to saga style, really.
No, not at all. Any sort of historical record that was never intended to be a fun read will have this sort of vague reference: any fiction may use it as a quick setting of background. Assuming of course that the reference *is* to a well-known event! If not, it's automatically read as the introduction of a new chaarcter. So your reference above must be trying to tell me something about Cyrenius, because it doesn't tell me anything about the date.
> > Wonders to self - what was the purpose of those
> Sagas?
>
> Remember who wrote them, in what climate.
I have no idea who wrote them. Climate - chilly. Or dd you mean political/social climate?
> Sagas are the stuff to while
> away the long winter dark with.
back to the idea that they're an enjoyable story again, then?
> Snorri
> makes a strong distinction between scaldic verses -
> not to be
> interrupted, of sacred or magical quality - and
> prosa recounting the facts.
But no category of "this is fun"?
> Some sagas are teaching history or myth. Egil's Saga
> and Snorri's
> Heimskringla and Edda fall in this category.
> Settlement sagas (early
> Iceland, Greenland, Vinland) as well. In a way, this
> is Prosopaedia
> information wrapped into a narrative.
OK, so it's not *meant* to be fun, just educational?
> Laxdaela saga
> is a forerunner of the great family epics of 19th
> and 20th century literature (and cinema).
Oh :( ancient Eastenders. Will skip.
> : Then Thormod took the tongs, and pulled the iron
> : out; but on the iron there was a hook, at which
> there hung some
> : morsels of flesh from the heart, -- some white,
> some red. When
> : he saw that, he said, "The king has fed us well.
> I am fat, even
> : at the heart-roots;" and so saying he leant back,
> and was dead.
Very operatic.
> : Gizur looked at him and said, "Well, is Gunnar at
> home?
>
> : "Find that out for yourselves," said Thorgrim;
> "but this I am
> : sure of, that his bill is at home," and with that
> he fell down : dead.
Nice! "Bill" being a weapon in this context?
> All of them are meant to be entertaining, as well.
> If you spend the
> dark season in a wooden house without radio,
> newspaper or more modern
> means, gathering to a reading of sagas _is_
> entertaining. Gossip does
> run out after a while. Grandfathers boasting does,
> too.
yes... it just seems to skip so much that could have made it more fun!
I'll try out those links, anyway.
Jane Williams
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