Re: Heroquest/Spiritquest/Essence Plane

From: Mike Holmes <mike_c_holmes_at_...>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:04:38 -0600

>From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
> > Basically it seems that in theism quests one follows the acts of some
> > that had an impact on an otherworld previously. As such, there are
> > two types - those beings that traveled to the otherworld, and those that
> > native to the otherworld (and then those who were around when all the
> > were one who are sorta both, but effectively the latter type "today").
>I sense the implicaton here is that the quests take place in the God World,
>Spirit World and Essence World. This isn't so. Such quests do and can
>but they are rare and nearly impossible to succeed in.
>Normal heroquesting takes plce in the God's War.

I had, yes, somewhat slipped into refering to the essence world. I understand what you're talking about, however. What I should be refering to is those parts of the God's War/Heroplane that are similar to the essential planes. That is, unless I'm am confused (definitely possible), when a theist goes to the heroplane he tends to deal there with things theistic, and the animist tends to deal with things animist. Not automatically - as the rules state one can gain any sort of magic in a HQ no matter one's own magical bent. But I just imagine that wizards try to stay in the safer and more comprehensible (to them) areas of the God's War that are more like their prefered otherworld. In terms of what a "Wizardry Heroquest" looks like, it'll tend to have to do with essences, it seems to me, and, perhaps, mirror some of the things we see happening in the essence world.

> > 1. Yes, the whole Stations of the Cross, are precisely the sort of thing
> > that I see happening for liturgists, and following saints for adepts. As
> > somebody said, think of Arthurian legends, too, questing for the Holy
> > and such. Seige Perilous would be, no doubt, a part of the Saint plane.
>This is a chane in style perhaps, but in essence is the same "Let's go to
>Gods War to learn something powerful."

Yes, they're all "essentially" the same. But the question asked originally is one of color - style as you put it. Do wizards tend to go on heroquests that involve contests like defeating the great frost hound daimone, or do they go on ones that are about Zzabur finding the essence of immortality behind a waterfall (or howeverthehell that happened)?

>What you descibe here is not so much as a HeroQuest as it is the sorcerous
>method of making a new spell or grimoire, or meeting a new being. The
>nature of
>it is essentially different from a HeroQuest.

Just as theists learning new feats while in the God World during certain rituals is not, precisely, heroqesting? I get it. But does this never happen as a heroquest? That is, presumably there are stories of wizardry beings that discovered magic in the God's War - there exist Wizardry Heroquests. Are they not ever like the efforts of the saints that created formularies, or of the founders to create grimoires? Are there Saints or Founders from before time? Or is all that sort of activity from after the start of time?

If it's all stuff done on the essence plane since the dawn, then, OK, little of what I said pertains to what a wizardry HQ looks like. Does that mean that all wizardry HQs tend to be more like Percival's quest, or the acts in heaven? If so, it sounds to me a bit like adepts don't likely do much heroquesting at all. I may be missing an entire category of color of quest, however.

> > For instance, the classic example that I can think of for an Adept
> > is to cross over to the essence hell,
>There is no essence hell or underworld. The Underworld is a different
>where the three worlds overlap (just like the surface world).
>The demon would be in the Underworld, hence a HeroQuest type of movement.

So the Underworld does allow for Heroquests. Well then my example seems to be allowable.

>The pure unicorn, being essence, would be in the Sorcery Planes and the
>would be different to learn something from it. You would essentially e
>learnign a spell.

Well, I see what you're saying (again my examples are implying the essence world). But were there no unicorns during the God's War?

Basically my impression was that most things that exist "now" only in one of the three otherworlds, once existed all together in the God's War. As such, aren't wizardry heroquesters more likely to find such a creature than, say, an animism quester?

> > An alchemist, for
> > instance, might go on a quest in the otherworld to find 10 things he
> > to put together to create the Philosopher's Stone (or Gloranthan
> > to ensure himself immortality (I'm sure this is what the Brithinians do,
> > no?).
>You can not go into the Otherworld and bring something back. Or rather,
>it is so rare that it is the equivalent of never happening.

Right. "Not since Malkion" or something like that. Reminds me of a line from Lawrence of Arabia (parphrased):
Lawrence: "I'll just cross the Sini."
Cairo Fred: "But, Orince, nobody crosses the Sini!" Lawrence: "Moses did it."
Cairo Fred: "But, Orince, you are not Moses!"

>To try to make the
>Philosopher's stone one woujld have to have the ten ingredients and then
>them into the Essence Plane and purify them, but if they ar enot pure
>they can not be taken there. So instead, take them tot he Gods War and
>them there...

Alright, that's the confirmation I'm looking for. No, not done in the Essence Plane, but done in the God's War as a heroquest. Basically, it is a valid sort of heroquest, just done like all HQs in the God's War.

>I believe the rules are pretty explicit that learning a spell requires
>to the Essence Plane to interact with this essence.

Hmm. I recall somebody saying recently that the theism rules said somewhere that practice quests can produce something like "minor magical abilities." Either that may not be true, or it may only be true for theism? Do wizardry participants do practice quests to get magic? If not, I assume they do them, just for practicing actual heroquests?

> > 2. Heroquest - the adept, following chapter four of the grimoire he's
> > studying, crosses over to the hero plane to follow some steps taken by
> > grimoire's writer when he first discovered the spells. The character
> > the same spells in doing so.
>Quite likely and fairly common method, but still requires contacting
>the essence plane.

So it seems you're either saying that this is not a heroquest (all done on the essence plane), or that said heroquest is followed up by a trip to the essence plane?

> > 3. Heroquest to the Node Plane - the adept, helped by his school,
> > over to the Node Plane, to attune his new copy of the grimoire to the
> > to which it usually is attuned.
>Posible, and going to the spell plane to learn spells. Possible too to
>go to the
>"grimoire node" to create a grimoire. But you'd have to know the spells
>already, I think.

But again this is like "worship" for the adept. Not a heroquest? (Worship in actuality if you consider the chain of veneration, but not for sorcerers)?

> > 4. Improvised Heroquest to the Node Plane - after years of study and
> > quests, the heroic adept crosses over to the Node Plane, and there
>creates a
> > new grimoire from his understanding of some new node.
>Crates a new grimoire form his knowledge of the spells he alrady know.

Again, not a heroquest, right? As a further clarification, this would probably be a culmination of many visits to learn enough spells linked to the node to have enough to put in the grimoire? That is, I first go on, say, seven trips to learn seven spells linked to the node, and then go and create a grimoire in which they are all recorded?

> > I always wondered how wizards
> > created magic stuff - well, I think they do it in heroquests, just like
> > theists do.
>Corect. They make an item, take it to the Gods War and charge it up with
>form the Essence Plane.

Cool. Good to know I got that right.

But my practice quest example of making a magic ring won't work? One has to go to the God's War?

Could practice quests perhaps be done to create the "vessel" in this case? Make the ring that will be taken on the heroquest to be charged?


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