Re: Heroquest/Spiritquest/Essence Plane

From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_...>
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 20:46:29 -0800

> From: CJ <cj_at_...>

> Subject: Heroquest/Spiritquest/Essence Plane

> I am fairly sure I asked this before, but I did not get any replies
> unless there was something wrong with my e-mail. What are the
> differences between heroquests in the three main magical traditions? I
> have seen the word spiritquest used, and I can see how taht would differ
> from teh HQ rules, but I am a bit vague as to what an Essence based
> monotheistic heroquest would look like? Does one recreate events froma
> Sanint's life, in a sort of mystery play/Stations of the Cross
> experience? What if any are the differences between theistic and
> monotheistic heroquesting?

Not a lot, I would suggest. And I'd include heroquest for spirits as well. What they have in common:

*They all take place in the Hero Wars
*They all (normally) follow the myths of their mythic beings
*they are all to obtain powers of supernatural magnitude.

> From: "Mike Holmes" <mike_c_holmes_at_...>
>> From: CJ <cj_at_...>
>> I have seen the word spiritquest used,
> Actually, on that subject, I get the feeling that there are at least two or
> three sorts of quests that would pertain to "animists." First is the
> "ancestor quest" meaning following a hero who is now a spirit, much like the
> theist quester follows in the footsteps of a theist hero. Really little
> difference there, it seems to me. The second, however, would be following
> the actions of a being that was always a spirit. Like "How Little Fox Stole
> the Sun" or somesuch myth.

These are not essentially different from each other. Each attempts to follow the
path of a supernatural being who helped to create the world in its own way.

> Basically it seems that in theism quests one follows the acts of some being
> that had an impact on an otherworld previously. As such, there are generally
> two types - those beings that traveled to the otherworld, and those that are
> native to the otherworld (and then those who were around when all the worlds
> were one who are sorta both, but effectively the latter type "today").

I sense the implicaton here is that the quests take place in the God World, Spirit World and Essence World. This isn't so. Such quests do and can occur, but they are rare and nearly impossible to succeed in.

Normal heroquesting takes plce in the God's War.

>> ... I am a bit vague as to what an Essence based
>> monotheistic heroquest would look like?
> Yeah, we already hit this a couple of times, but what the heck...
>> Does one recreate events from a
>> Sanint's life, in a sort of mystery play/Stations of the Cross
>> experience?
> I think that, in Wizardry, there are probably a couple of types of
> heroquests:
> 1. Yes, the whole Stations of the Cross, are precisely the sort of thing
> that I see happening for liturgists, and following saints for adepts. As
> somebody said, think of Arthurian legends, too, questing for the Holy Grail
> and such. Seige Perilous would be, no doubt, a part of the Saint plane.

This is a chane in style perhaps, but in essence is the same "Let's go to the Gods War to learn something powerful."

> 2. For Adepts,

What you descibe here is not so much as a HeroQuest as it is the sorcerous method of making a new spell or grimoire, or meeting a new being. The nature of
it is essentially different from a HeroQuest.

> however, I see something that's harder to describe. But it
> starts with the concept of nodes. That is, in the mundane world many things
> have essences in them, but you can't see them (without symbolic sight),
> because they're hidden behind the mundane shell. Hence the term essence
> meaning the inner nature of the thing. In the essence world, there are no
> such mundane shells, so these inner sources of energy for things are laid
> bare. When one can see these sources of energy, apparently, one can discern
> how to touch them, mold them, and ultimately use them to effect change.

But the important thing here is that everythingis Essential, and the conlfict is
of an absolutely different type than a HeroQuest.

> For instance, the classic example that I can think of for an Adept heroquest
> is to cross over to the essence hell,

There is no essence hell or underworld. The Underworld is a different place, where the three worlds overlap (just like the surface world).

> find some demon, and ask it to teach
> you a spell. The "demon" in this case is a renegade essence, and it's
> probably just telling the adept how to deal with some local node. This would
> be "Sorcery" of course. For a faithful wizard, he might cross to some
> essential forest, find a unicorn there, and persuade it to tell him a spell.

The demon would be in the Underworld, hence a HeroQuest type of movement. The pure unicorn, being essence, would be in the Sorcery Planes and the conflict
would be different to learn something from it. You would essentially e learnign
a spell.

> In addition to spells and linking nodes to grimoires (particularly difficult
> as one has to get to the Node plane which is a 10W6 resistance), I'm sure
> that some wizards cross over to get "essential items." An alchemist, for
> instance, might go on a quest in the otherworld to find 10 things he needs
> to put together to create the Philosopher's Stone (or Gloranthan equivalent)
> to ensure himself immortality (I'm sure this is what the Brithinians do,
> no?).

You can not go into the Otherworld and bring something back. Or rather, it is so
rare that it is the equivalent of never happening. To try to make the Philosopher's stone one woujld have to have the ten ingredients and then take them into the Essence Plane and purify them, but if they ar enot pure already, they can not be taken there.So instead, take them tot he Gods War and purify them there...

> Compare this to the recent discussion on the magnitude of quests for an idea
> of what life as an adept is about:
> 1. Practice quests - the adept reads about some wizard, studying the steps,
> and then mentally goes over them. He may learn some minor spells this way,
> ones that don't require close visualization of the essence source behind the
> spell to understand.

I believe the rules are pretty explicit that learning a spell requires goign tothe Essence Plane to interact with this essence.

> 2. Heroquest - the adept, following chapter four of the grimoire he's
> studying, crosses over to the hero plane to follow some steps taken by the
> grimoire's writer when he first discovered the spells. The character learns
> the same spells in doing so.

Quite likely and fairly common method, but still requires contacting the essence

> 3. Heroquest to the Node Plane - the adept, helped by his school, crosses
> over to the Node Plane, to attune his new copy of the grimoire to the node
> to which it usually is attuned.

Posible, and going to the spell plane to learn spells. Possible too to go to the
"grimoire node" to create a grimoire. But you'd have to know the spells already,
I think.

> 4. Improvised Heroquest to the Node Plane - after years of study and other
> quests, the heroic adept crosses over to the Node Plane, and there creates a
> new grimoire from his understanding of some new node.

Crates a new grimoire form his knowledge of the spells he alrady know.

> And that's just for gaining spells. Each may also pertain to gaining magic
> items, again, or other magical benefits. I always wondered how wizards
> created magic stuff - well, I think they do it in heroquests, just like
> theists do.

Corect. They make an item, take it tothe Gods War and charge it up with ppwer form the Essence Plane.

Greg Stafford

Issaries, Inc.
2140 Shattuck Ave., PMB #2030
Berkeley, CA 94704 USA

Powered by hypermail