> On a side note: I like the idea that your clan and tribe are the cradle
> you must outgrow as your heroes become more important to the powers that
> be (and can become folks like that themselves).
I find this intriguing, but don't know the context of the original remark. For me its an ongoing tension rather than an imperative. What's to replace it?
Allegiance to that woolly concept called Sartar? We've discussed *that* before (and I was one of those defending the newly nascent nationalism, in part because nationalism creates nations, not the other way round.) Allegiance to warband leaders and chiefs gives way to stronger relationships to kings and heroes.
Allegiance to the gods themselves? Apart from the beyond-the hearth gods like Humakt and Urox, there's no great contradiction between caring for your clan and worshipping the gods.
Allegiance to passions, like hatred and revenge and bloodlust? Down that path lies madness, or herodom. Often both.
I certainly agree that the path to herodom requires transformation of a warrior's base sensibilities. One path *is* to surrender your humanity, together with traits like compassion, love and the value systems associated with mere human perception. Harrek is the epitome of this. IMG most of the Argraths fall into this mode of being. Other heroes struggle to retain and refine their humanity, even as they ascend into transhuman realms. Sartar is my favourite example (Ben Waggoner posted an *excellent* post on Sartar in yesterday's Gloranthan Digest). IMG Kallyr also epitomises this, and it has probably doomed her.
"I had to destroy the village in order to save it".
"I saved the village and its folk, though in doing so our battle was lost."
Which of these statements most befits a hero?
Of course, consciously determining proper sacrifices is one of the lessons a military commander must learn to make. The recent (and very, very ordinary) U-571 played with this idea from the opposite perspective to my own (which is admittedly rather one-sided). Manly men did manly things at unspeakable depths, and the new captain learned to send men to certain death, just as his mentor taught him. And of course, America saved the free world once again, huzzah. (The irony of the endnote, which belatedly explained it was actually the *British* who snatched Enigma from a German U-boat, seems lost completely on the film's producers).
The tribe that Orlanth and Ernalda formed is not given to many absolutes. Orlanth is not driven by honour, as Humakt is, or pained rage, like Urox, or blind vengeance, like Babeester Gor. He is a god of compromise who makes mistakes, yet he is Lord of Middle Air because he places trust in the strengths of his many followers and friends, and supports them in doing their best. These values create and sustain the Storm Tribe. I suppose it is possible that an Orlanthi hero might outgrow these values, and the values of family and clan, but I find it unlikely. Whatever such have become, they are no longer true Heortlings.
I suspect in the Hero Wars there will be many such heroes. On reflection, many of my campaigns have had this tension and choice at their heart.
John
(whose current (Kheldon!) vingan has Ambivalence Kallyr 18).
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