a great collection of quotes - thanks!
> <janewilliams20_at_...> wrote:
>
> > KoS. AWB is listed as one of Kallyr's earliest
> > supporters.
Yep. 1625. Right there with the Telmori.
> Other than the Annotated Argrath's Saga account of
> the meta-composite-Argrath's
Which I think we can agree we use as a source of hints, not as reliable data?
We do have in CHDP, in 1624: "Argrath went back to Prax, and with the White Bull Brothers and some others, took the city of Corflu from lunar hands." - so this is the Argrath who had been fighting alongside Harrek and Broyan, and the WB Brothers, but not necessarily AWB. A hint, not a real reference. It reads to me that Garrath and AWB were working together at this point.
> 'In Prax AWB raised a huge army and marched upon the
> city of Pavis...
1625, but pre-Dragonrise, yes?
> So in this account AWB and his nomads never even
> reach Sartar - and no
> connection between AWB and Kallyr
Agreed. No stated connection.
> (who is presumably still in the Holy Country
Could be. Wandering all over the place as usual, I expect.
> - although not with Broyan who is also
> falling victim to an
> army-devouring demon at this time)
While marching north: purpose not stated. I'm not sure if this was meant to be in response to events in Pavis, or not.
> Two pages later on p154 Kallyr after having been
> named queen and
> warlord by 'the convocation of all leaders' called
> after the Dragonrise:
Where "all leaders" is a beautifully imprecise term! All leaders who happened to be present, who were therefore by definition already allies of hers....
> 'immediately set to preapring for the Lunar
> retaliation which she was
> sure would come. She gained the loyalty of the
> Telmori, of the Thunder
> Brothers and of Argarth White Bull of Prax'.
>
> So Kallyr's first canonical connection with AWB is
> only established
> after she has been elected 'queen and warlord' in
> late 1625.
Yes.
> Thus making him 'one of her earliest supporters' is
> something of a
> stretch given that AWB apparently had no involvement
> with the
> rebellion until after it had succeeded and that
> Kallyr had already
> gained the formal support of 'all the leaders'
> before AWB joined her.
Well, the full statement if I'd been being more precise would have been "earliest major supporters other than the assorted tribesfolk who'd been following her around for ages, in her bid to be fully accepted as Queen of Sartar". But I was being concise/lazy. It's the opening moves of the civil war. Lunars are out. Now, who's going to end up ruling Sartar? Who can rack up the best count of powerful allies? Which way will the Colymar go? And he's one of the first cards she grabs.
> There is also no Argrath listed amongst 'Kallyr's
> Companions' in Jalk's Book
Though remember that we have *no* idea when that list is set. Mind you, that's her "followers" - I wouldn't expect someone who's an ally, on an equal basis, to be in that list of underlings.
> and neither is one mentioned in the
> description of the Dragonrise in CHoDP
Agreed.
> which to me at least suggests that none of the
> Argrath's were amongst Kallyr's supporters until
> after she became queen in winter 1625.
Or at least, not formally declared as such. We know she was fighting alongside at least one of them a few years earlier in Esrolia, both supporting Broyan.
> Unless I've missed a reference it tells us nothing
> about AWB's later
> activities, does not state whether AWB later
> supported Kallyr against
> the other Argrath(s) when they fell out,
He starts as on her side, at least: the others did not. And although working from negative evidence isn't exaclty reliable, if "the" Argrath had won AWB over to his side, I'd have expected CHDP to say so. Just the way AWB is ignored from then on is suspicious, to me.
> and certainly does not
> preclude AWB being that 'other Argrath' and/or 'the
> Argrath' who eventually become High King.
I'm sure we could come up with a theory that made him so, if we wanted to. But then, in most Gloranthas, I suspect "the" Argrath is going to be a PC :)
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