Of course they are.
But they are at any time.
But they still don't have nomads, barbarians or any other neighbors
coming in to burn their fields and carry off their women and children.
The Dart Competitions assure that.
> In any case the disagreements which
> causes feuds and violence in Sartar will be just as common in
> Dara Happa
No disagreement here.
Human nature is human nature.
> although they may be resolved by the authorities
> using violence against one or both parties rather than individuals
> using violence against one another. You only have to look at
> the records of court cases of the feudal courts to see the scale
> of this.
Again, the Dart Competitions go a looooong way to assure the safety of the peasantry, whether serf, slave or freeholders.
> >> >Furthermore, the internal trade of the empire, coupled with the
> >> >aforementioned peace, generates a standard of living that is
> >> >considerably above the desperate, hand-to-mouth level that is
> >> >standard for pre-industrial societies.
> >>
> >> Again that's going to be true for the minority but I can't see
> >> it applying to the average peasant or labourer. Indeed I would
> >> expect their position to be worse than a typical Sartarite
> >> cottar.
> >
> >Anything that improves the "famine one is seven years" cycle that is
> >normal for agricultural societies is a vast improvement in standards of
> >living. Yea, they still have such events, but they are greatly
> >alleviated by the fact that SOME food is shuttled to their territories
> >by their overlords.
>
> In the RW the "crop failure is one in seven years" was solved
> long before the industrial revolution by efficent means of
> storing surplus grain.
Not really.
I agree that efficient food storage was a vast improvement, but it was
in no way foolproof and hunger and starvation was a pretty constant threat.
The averages come out, as I understand it, to be one year of seven = famine, 1 = bad harvest, 3 = "normal," 1 = really good; 1 = super harvest. And no one could tell what a year would be when it began, and wouldn't everyone have been happier if there was a regular cycle of these, instead of the occasional five years of famines, etc.
> That's what the medieval tithe barns
> were for. The church collected their tenth of the crop which,
> in addition to supporting the clergy, provided food as charity
> in the bad years. It didn't stop famine entirely but did mean
> that it required an external factor such as war or plague for
> it to occur.
I'm not so certain it was so foolproof.
> Given the ability of some Gloranthans in most cultures to predict
> the future I'd suggest actual famine, as opposed to crop failure,
> is pretty rare.
Woah! To accurately predict the future? I've stressed over and over that no such certainty exists in my Glorantha.
> Taking the Heortling example they are also protected from crop
> failure by their wide range of crops and animals. When one
> crop fails people go hungry but don't starve because there are
> alternatives.
Yes, that is the plan. But even with this variety in medieval Europe, hunger was a constant threat and famine familiar.
> We also know that some parts of the Lunar Empire use slaves
> for farming. Such people are worse off than all but the poorest
> peasant. If we use the Roman model of farming with slaves, then
> it drives down the standard of living of nearby free peasantry.
> In the end that created the feudal system because the free
> peasant couldn't compete with the slave and serf owners.
It's well documented that slave farming is far less efficient than freemen. Not all citizens of the lands are slaves, for starters.
And I am not claiming that everyone in the empire is fat and healthy. Common slaves are miserable, etc.
> >And their chiefs and leaders would be benefiting from the increased
> >distribution of luxury goods, even if it is only a different style of
> >cup they drink out of, etc.
>
> Sure, that's a big reason why societies would adopt the Lunar
> way. The leaders benefit even when the people as a whole don't.
Agreed.
And I still contend that the removal of external threats is a cause of
great comfort and rejoicing for the commoners.
> >> The benefits of the industrial revolution didn't filter
> >> down to ordinary people for something like 50 to a 100 years
> >
> >How long has the Empire been at peace since Sheng Seleris was
> >ejected?
>
> However the industrial revolution hasn't started even in the
> Lunar Empire. And the factors which lead to the filtering down
> such as trade unions and "one man one vote" haven't been
> introduced.
I'm not claiming that the industrial revolution or its supposed benefits
are present.
I'm saying that the centuries since significant external threats have
benefited the commoners.
I don't pretend that the empire is a big happy land where the peasants
are all well fed and have luxury items.
Frankly, the threat of overpopulation is imminent, and some of the
artificial conditions imposed (like the diminished winter from the
Kalikos expeditions) do harm.
But I am saying that when the common people do not have to worry about being killed by invaders, or of having their livelihoods destroyed, or of being dragooned into any passing army to serve as laborers and living shields, they are better off, materially, than when they DO have to worry about it.
Combine that with the fact that there is ANY opportunity that a smart or clever or lucky person, male AND female, can get ahead and rise above his common origins, and I contend the empire has improved the lives of even the commoners.
--
Sincerely,
Greg Stafford
Issaries, Inc.
1942 Channing Way, #204
Berkeley, CA 94704
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