Re: Real World Vingans

From: Jakob Pape <chaomancer_at_JvjoOmkAeygIWf0WtkA3sfXNL0DnEb_J2nE37T1thhzK4Pfu2DzbANLU6olCNpffW>
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:17:22 +0100



>
> In message <4861c95a0707251150r5a467211hadf6e80e2f79ded9_at_eY1zj2ITG1V6FdNG0RL3_x1TU0EFfmlvq3QF_g3eUQEoVlhKCMCF-69EaRWcnIgu2Wm0zHyHEfIxgeT2YsdhJZB6LjO6GJix_d3Sf3BX97j7LVozOoWe6aHegfvWTPWOXA.yahoo.invalid>
> "Jakob Pape" writes:
>
> >Aside from that excellent point, I also think that some of us have
> trouble
> >changing assumptions because we can't always see what to switch to. If we
> >know (or can look up) how, say, Orlanthi think about gender or marriage
> or
> >whatever, that's great - at least I and my group love Glorantha because
> it
> >is different. We like playing up to the differences (except where we
> don't
> >and Our Glorantha Varies).
> >
> >If we don't know about the Orlanthi, but happen to have an idea of what
> >Vikings or Celts thought, we might go with that.
>
> In fact we don't have much idea how the Vikings or Celts thought. We
> can make guesses based on what's available such as Brehon law and
> myths. Unfortunately even they were only written down some generations
> after they were widely practiced.

Just so, that's what I meant by having an idea. It doesn't matter if it's accurate to history, just that it's a consistent world view to base Glorantha on when we don't have the Gloranthan details handy, and widely known enough to be a shared viewpoint that can be usefully discussed.

>But if we don't have anything to go on, well, it takes an effort to not
> >use the assumptions of our own culture. Sometimes we forget to make that
> >effort, and sometimes it doesn't feel worth the effort if we'd just be
> >making something up to fill the gaps afterwards - at least our cultural
> >assumptions are easy to apply.
>
> There are two things which help me to switch mindsets. Firstly is
> experience of differing cultural values and making the effort to
> understand why they are different. As a general rule there is
> always a good reason for any practice although it may be obsolete
> provided the practice isn't too onerous.
>
> Secondly is understanding where our own cultural assumptions come
> from and why they developed. When you realise that many of them
> developed among the middle classes of the 19th century it's pretty
> obvious they are horribly anachronistic in ancient societies. Equally
> those originating in the various Christian churches are inappropriate
> for a pagan society. Going into detail is getting way off topic so
> I'll have to refer you to the social history section of a good library
> or academic bookshop.

Thanks for the advice. I understand the generalities,and have enough historical knowledge to get the differences between cultures at a basic level. I can make the switch when I know what I'm switching to.

As for referring me to the library and bookshop, this started in response to Greg's comment that

"I have always assumed
that the average HQ player would know better than to project modern European/US mores onto an ancient society. I had just assumed that we were better educated and informed than that. "

I'm just saying that some of us (i.e. me, and probably others), while being aware of that mistake, can't help but make it. We *do* know better, but we can't avoid projecting our cultural biases unless we know what to replace them with. And, much as I would like to, I don't have time to read up on social history in order to improve my games - I have enough other things to read! I don't expect that the average HQ player has time to do so either. Advice like this, unfortunately, tends to imply that someone without a grounding in such material should stay away from Glorantha games - I know that's not the intent, but it can easily look that way from the outside.

We'll all just have to be patient, I think, and iron out the misunderstandings that result.

-- 
Jakob Pape

"Sometimes subtlety comes in the form of large explosions and jammed open
airlock doors."


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