Re: Good Tricksters, Hare? Greg SEZ:

From: Greg Stafford <Greg_at_mgQtmdQx2bvYsQ6W3zp6LGbR00_NuwrqrKXDQAjC6iF3K8C_wXG_Bx6O2kfziHK_BvKx3m7>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:24:36 -0800

Great little tale.

parental_unit_2 wrote:
> That's pretty much the essence of it. Moon the Transformer didn't
> actually lie to Deer, as such, but omitted some pretty crucial
> information, and then transformed Deer into the animal that people hunt.

I would not even consider this to be a tale of Trickster, though it is a trickster tale. Omitting information is not a lie, not deceit, not a trick. The world does not explain what it is to us, and we ought not expect the tales of how the world is to explain things either. Like when Raven steals fire, typically explained as a trickster tale (but not under my definition).
> It sounds like this kind of behavior is within the sphere of a god
> like Orlanth -- it's not something inherently owned by the Trickster.

There is a world of difference between Trickser, and doing tricks.
> Thanks for responding to my questions,

Good questions. Excellent, because they really made me think and come to some focus (below). It showed me where I could explain something basic that apparently I've not said before.

Final points:
The Trickster that I was talking of is the raw archetype, not a "Trickster God."
Check out the book by Paul Radin, /The Trickster /(I think). It's where I got the progression of Eurmal from the absolutely mindless id-driven force to being a conscious create working for the good of the universe. The Winnebago cycle shows the whole spectrum of possibilities. But once Trickster puts on a mask and is the God of Tricking, or once it includes other powers (Hermes) or becomes only one thing (the malevolent destroyer, Loki as popularly conceived), it is not that Trickster of which I spoke.
The Trickster of whom I speak is amoral, unconscious and impersonal. So, taking all of that in...
I need to say that in Glorantha there certainly are Trickster Gods (Mrs. Carrot) and Trickster Spirits (Hare) and Trickster Essences (Randomness). And they are NOT the pure essence--Eurmal is that (he does have other incarnations and names, of course) .
So, it is likely at least /some /of these would be more good than bad, and perhaps even mostly good (they must do something bad sometime...) or more bad, as you had suggested.
I am no sure who of them is which, and know that the many of them change the world that they are from, change form and gender, etc. and that if they have great use and manifestation of the rawly-defined Trickster Power, then they are close to Trickster. They have less mask and less self-conscious control. It's the way things work: if close to the archetype (the power behind the gods, the power behind the runes, the power behind hidden secrets) the individual has less personality and control.

Also, please see:

    Greg Stafford
    President, Issaries. Inc.

Love without reserve, 
Enjoy without restraint, 
Live without dead time.


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