Anyone we can find where the idea would be useful/interesting/fun?
>The Brithini ride on Waertagi ships and always have - I don't think
>there are Brithini ships.
Yes, agree, there are no Brithini ships.
Which was the basis of my idea. For a hypothetical super-conservative Malkioni in the roughly modern era, any question about caste not answered by Malkion in the Abiding Book should be answered by reference to Brithini writings on caste. So if you go back to Brithini sources to try to get an answer to the question about who is in charge of a ship, the answer will always be 'the senior Waertagi'.
>
>The great western navies in the Second Age were most emphatically
>NOT considered Waertagi. They were pragmatic Hrestoli from Jrustela
>(at least initially).
See, Hrestoli. And pragmatic. Suspect on two counts already to our hypothetical super-conservative. And look where all that nonsense led, he says.
>FWIW, the Waertagi at the Dawn were organized into five extended
>families of about 360 to 640 people, each resided on a dragonship.
>Each family elected a Sivis to serve as shiplord; once brought to
>command the Sivis could not be removed except by death and his word
>was law.
Is a sivis or shiplord the same position that is referred to as Admiral in some other places?
>Of course the Waertagi dragonships disappeared in the Second Age, so
>this is all academic.
Well, there aren't any Waertagi around now, and the world has changed, so it is academic in that sense, but not necessarily irrelevant. We can find plenty of examples in the real world of people attempting to deal with the modern day based on centuries old texts that clearly where written for a different world, and coming up with something that looks very odd and not very sensible to pragmatic outsiders. Things like Shabbat Elevators, or fatwa on mobile phone etiquette,
All I'm suggesting is that I can see some ultra-conservatives looking to ancient Brithini sources to decide how a ship should be run, and coming to the conclusion that all boats must be commanded by Waertagi, and then reasoning from there. Mostly, because I think it is kind of funny (which doesn't mean it isn't realistic).
> > From what I can tell, the Malkioni/Brithini have generally
>> have rules that allow for dealing with the Waertagi as peaceful
>> allies (not that they always do so, especially in the Second Age).
>> And the Waertagi seem to have always had caste mobility. So, I'm sure
>> some bright scholar of caste law has come up with bright idea of
>> saying the rules for dealing with Waertagi Admirals can be applied to
>> anyone who captains a boat.
>
>The Waertagi don't have caste. The Brithini have always considered
>that perfectly ok; the most ancient laws describe the Waertagi as
>such.
Well, the Brithini seem to have considered it perfectly OK at least up until the point they tried to wipe the Waertagi from the seas, anyway.
My swipe at Zzaburs views on caste was that most accounts of Brithini ideas about the castes present it as if there was one view of caste to which all in Danmalastan agreed, and then some rejected it and fell from the true path. Whereas the truth, as even Zzabur quietly admits, seems more like that there seem to have been a variety of views about caste, but Zzabur and the Zzaburites/Enrovalini gradually become more and more intolerant of others and more assertive of the one view (though the Waertagi lasted longest, presumably because the Brithini really didn't care much about what they did as long as it stayed on the boats). To quote the Big Z in RM "Though many tribal ways were once available, we know now that only the Brithini way is true."
>
>The Hrestoli of Jrustela and Seshnela fought a bitter war against
>the Waertagi and ultimately defeated them with Tanian's Victory.
>Then the Closing shut them off from the Sea for nearly six
>centuries. With the Opening, I doubt they looked to ancient dusty
>tomes about the long-lost greenmen to organize their ships. They
>either looked at how Dormal ran his ships or looked to not quite so
>ancient tomes about the Jrusteli fleets.
It was just a little idea. It doesn't need to have a history lesson dropped on it. I was just a weird little idea that could have been fun for one of the sects with funny (yet rigid) ideas about castes, like the Sedaplsts or Valkarists or some even more obscure oddballs.
But I will say that we do, indeed, have plenty of evidence that when called on to address some unusual situation, many Malkioni DO look first to ancient dusty tomes. And why not? It is realistic (plenty of religious conservatives looking dusty old times in our world) and has plenty of fun potential.
Cheers
Dave
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