So, if you have seen enough of that, skip this message.
However, there have been a few publications shedding occasional flashlights on the area. Let's concentrate on these (and the new focus Casinotown).
Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_...> wrote:
>> Refuge might be a special case since there seems to be a "Brithini" city government despite the change of overlords.
> There is no "seems".
> Genertela Book describes it as a city in God Forgot and a Brithini Outpost.
As of 1621.
Brithini Outpost: doesn't necessarily mean that the entire city is Brithini - Sog City is a model for a Brithini leadership and lesser Malkioni as servant population.
I'm inclined to equate Brithini with Ingareen - people strictly sticking to the Revelation of Now.
The exact origin of the Esvulari remains unclear. Looking at the excerpts from the Examples of Karatch, Aeol arrived in the area on a Waertagi ship early in the Dawn Age, coming from a Kachasti (continental Malkioni) colony called Obron which was in contact with the Waertagi. The Waertagi may have made contact with the Ingareens even before the Dawn - they must have used the Gray Age to destroy any other boatman culture on the seas (such as migratory Helerings, Artmali survivors, and possibly Thinobutans and their ilk) west of Sshorg's Sea. The population of the town of Aladis were sort of Malkioni, but apparently not following the Revelation of Now any more.
They were in contact with storm-worshipping barbarians. Likely candidates are the Garanvuli (the Hurlant appear to be a later addition, possibly refugees from the Bright Empire). They appear to have spoken a non-western language - the Esvulari speak a dialect of Heortlander, as far as I know.
There is no indication where either the Hurlant or the Esvulari came from. When History of the Heortling Peoples looks into the region again - Hendrik's saga, during the occupation of Kethaela by Palangio - we learn about non-Hendriki peoples inhabiting the region.
King Dinorth subjugated them c.480, when they occupied the southern coasts and Bandori Valley (p.86)
> History of the Heortling Peoples has the following things to say:
> "[The Aeolian] city of Refuge grew and attracted settlers." p82
> "[King Aventevus] died trying to assault Refuge in Esvular" p92
> "[King Silkinister] used the [Thunderball Dak] to destroy the walls of Refuge in Esvular" p92.
> I don't see how Refuge can be an Aeolian city with Brithini overlords simply because I don't see why the Aeolians would tolerate having Brithini overlords in their largest city.
I'm not sure Refuge has to be a purely Aeolian city. HeroQuest gives us two alternative religions for the Esvulari, both of which are well suited for people cohabitating with Brithini.
The description of the Unknown God Church clearly connects the Esvulari to God Forgot. Effectively, we get Esvulari ruled by the Ingareens and Esvulari ruled by the Hendriki, unless we get Esvulari overthrowing the yoke of overlords.
The Aeolian Church is the Esvulari guide to survival along the Storm Barbarians. The Unknown God Church sounds like the original Esvulari creed.
Where were they at the Dawn? Were they part of the hidden Ingareens in Jon Barat?
What is their origin? Are they really Malkioni who emigrated in the Fifth Action who settled in the Leftarm Isles and in southern Heortland? Did they meet a pre-existing colony of Ingareens there?
The homeland description makes the Esvulari the people whom god forgot.
"The people of Dawn Age Esvular had no religion." (HQ1, p.44)
Maybe I read the sources differently from you.
RuneQuest Companion p.25
"These folk are ruled by ancients using the Brithini forms of life and government. Their ruler is called the Talar, and he is advised by wizards, guarded by staunch soldiers, and supported by loyal farmers."
This doesn't say that these folks are using the Brithini forms of life and government, only the ancients.
>> There is no official material about Refuge, but the city bears a lot of resemblance to the city in the Thieves World pack published by Chaosium.
> What resemblance?
Local geography (the Bandori valley maps well to the detail map of Sanctuary), reputation, and the fact that this was the place where the Chaosium house campaign playtested the Thieves World pack.
>>> I suspect that before Steelfall, the old rulers would have resided in Zistorela. >> If the old rulers were the Ingareens, why should they have moved just because they accepted a new overlord?
> Who said anything about moving? The old Zistorite rulers were either killed in battle or butchered (f you object that the Hendriki would not have massacred their prisoners; their inhuman allies would have no such compunctions).
No essential disagreement about the fate of the old Zistorite rulers here. As to their henchmen - Isidilian might have taken slaves for his cannon already at this time. He definitely did so with refugees from the advancing dragons in 1120.
> The new rulers of the modern age are the leaders of Tosk Island who collaborated with the New Unity Army and later the Esvulari.
One question is, were the Zistorite rulers natives or immigrants?
p.82 - Kethaelan Colonies:
"The Middle Sea Empire planted several colonies in Kethaela during these years (807-911). In general the core population was imported, about half from Jrustela and Seshnela, the other half of folk dispossessed from overseas. Commonly locals also moved in, though under scrutiny."
Zistorela, the Clanking City, is listed as one of these colonies.
This is sort of corroborated in King of Sartar (p.95):
"One day Zistor the Destroyer showed up, in person, to help during the invasion of Esrolia. [...] Across Maniria the people had dreamed of this, and were glad for it. They liked it. When they woke, many of them traveled to the island called Machine City."
Dates for the God Learner operations are given in Esrolia - land of 10000 goddesses
"790 (circa) God Learners contact the Ingareens in God Forgot, and persuade them to construct Locsil, the Clanking city"
Sounds like the Ingareens are encouraged to do the groundwork for the city. No mention of Zistorites or the Machine God yet.
"859-870 (circa) the Zistorites settle in Kethaela."
No mention of a machine contraption knocking down walls in Esrolia, but a clear statement that the Zistorites come from outside of God Forgot.
In 907, the Machine Wars or Iron Wars start. Many of the defenders of the Clanking city are cyborgs by this time.
>> The way I see this, the quasi-Brithini magically remained the lords of God Forgot, and only the extent of the border was under dispute at this time. The Esvulari remained second class citizens under either regime until Belintar gave them the freedom to act for themselves.
> Except that the Hendriki sources when speaking about problems from the south, always talk of Esvular and not God Forgot. The Esvulari aren't described in terms of being second class citizens either when they are causing trouble either.
That's why the Germans are named after the Alemanni in the French language and after the saxons in Finnland... you name those you have the most exposure to, assuming that behind them there are more of those.
Aeolians and Esvulari has been used interchangeably. Not entirely correctly.
Esvular and God Forgot has been used for the same region. Not necessarily wrongly.
>> All of this time, including the Adjusted Lands episode, these kings operated under Ezkankekko as overlord over the Shadowlands. It doesn't look like one could not accept two or three different authorities at the same time - which is what I think the Esvulari did.
> I don't see any indication that the Hendriki were taking orders from Ezkankekko.
Or that Ezkankekko gave them any.
Heortling Mythology, p.128 / Esrolia, land of 10k goddesses, p.56
"The Peoples subject to the Shadow Tribute were called the Shadowlands or the Kitori Empire. It was an empire of tribute-collection, without governors, government, central laws or rule.
[...]
But all acknowledged Ezkankekko's sacred authority: a carefully circumscribed and ceremony authority, but authority nonetheless."
> He's notoriously absent when the Hendriki are invading Esrolia and the Hendriki kings made peace agreements with the EWF without even so much as a courtesy call to the Only Old One.
"The tribes and cities paid the tribute owed Ezkankekko and Ezkankekko offered them protection from the Darkness"
The Shadow Tribute is a very specific insurance. Squabbles between subject peoples are not covered.
The Ingareen influence on the Esvulari may be similar. So Refuge has a Brithini/Ingareen enclave which has a say in certain matters about the city, and which may ignore any other matter. There may be laws about public spitting or precedence in traffic but none about
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