>> I don't see how Refuge can be an Aeolian city with Brithini overlords simply because I don't see why the Aeolians would tolerate having Brithini overlords in their largest city.
> I'm not sure Refuge has to be a purely Aeolian city. HeroQuest gives us two alternative religions for the Esvulari, both of which are well suited for people cohabitating with Brithini.
The actual creed of Esvular is the Aeolian church. People worshipping the Unknown God Church or the No God Church aren't Aeolians but a fringe minority - Heroquest actually presented them as a common magic religion. I cannot imagine how a society based on the worship of venerating pagan deities can somehow have people saying "There is no god" or "We do not know who this God Bloke is" as a valid alternative beliefs to their revealed truth. And that leaves unsaid why the Esvulari would tolerate strange people ruling their biggest city.
> Effectively, we get Esvulari ruled by the Ingareens and Esvulari ruled by the Hendriki, unless we get Esvulari overthrowing the yoke of overlords.
Except there is no evidence of the Esvulari being ruled by the God Forgotten and the evidence for the Hendriki ruling the Esvulari amounts to little more than they exacted tribute from them at some stage or another.
> The Aeolian Church is the Esvulari guide to survival along the Storm Barbarians.
> The Unknown God Church sounds like the original Esvulari creed.
I seriously cannot entertain the notion that the Aeolian Church merely an interpretation of basic Esvulari beliefs to enable them to survive the Storm Barbarians. It is revealed truth and stands apart from the foolishness of the God Forgotten. The Esvulari follow the Aeolian Church not because it enables them to survive among the Orlanthi but because it is _True_.
> The homeland description makes the Esvulari the people whom god forgot.
>
> "The people of Dawn Age Esvular had no religion." (HQ1, p.44)
Except that the Esvulari and the God Forgotten are now distinct peoples if they were ever once the same.
> RuneQuest Companion p.25
> "These folk are ruled by ancients using the Brithini forms of life and government. Their ruler is called the Talar, and he is advised by wizards, guarded by staunch soldiers, and supported by loyal farmers."
Which is a reference to God Forgot, not Esvular.
>> What resemblance [is there between Refuge and Thieves World]?
> Local geography (the Bandori valley maps well to the detail map of Sanctuary), reputation, and the fact that this was the place where the Chaosium house campaign playtested the Thieves World pack.
Let's see.
Local geography - a port with a river next to it. Can be applied to any number of cities in Genertela.
Reputation - where is Refuge known as a den of iniquity and thieves?
Ye Olde Playtest argument - a single throwaway statement about a playtest of a non-Gloranthan supplement is weakened by the fact that the obvious place to put it - Questworld - wasn't actually published by Chaosium until the following year. As it is, putting it in Glorantha makes about as much sense as publishing Traveller stats for Thieves World.
As for adapting Thieves World to Glorantha, it requires a large amount of rewriting of core material to adapt a so-so fantasy world such that I think it far better to let Thieves World be Thieves World and allow Refuge its own gloranthan weirdness. I mean I read the Thieves World books (the first two and one much later which made no sense in a Herbetsque way) and I can't recall anything compelling about the material to make it a must-have in glorantha.
> Aeolians and Esvulari has been used interchangeably. Not entirely correctly.
>
> Esvular and God Forgot has been used for the same region. Not necessarily wrongly.
You have yet to give any evidence that Esvular and God Forgot are used for the same region other than by pointing to sources which were written before Esvular was introduced.
As it is the differences between the Esvular and God Forgot are so great that even the Hendriki could tell them apart. Read the description of Esvular life in HeroQuest Voices. Do they sound like God Forgotten to you?
>
>> I don't see any indication that the Hendriki were taking orders from Ezkankekko.
> Or that Ezkankekko gave them any.
>
> Heortling Mythology, p.128 / Esrolia, land of 10k goddesses, p.56
> "The Peoples subject to the Shadow Tribute were called the Shadowlands or the Kitori Empire. It was an empire of tribute-collection, without governors, government, central laws or rule.
> [...]
> But all acknowledged Ezkankekko's sacred authority: a carefully circumscribed and ceremony authority, but authority nonetheless."
That is about the Heortlings of the Silver and Dawn Ages when we are
discussing the Hendriki of the late Imperial and early Modern Ages. The
Shadow Tribute was abandoned after the Tax Slaughter of 578 ST and only
makes an re-appearance when the Kitori levy it on the Volsaxi through
Holy Country trickery.
--Peter Metcalfe
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