Re: The origin of Ogres.

From: simon_hibbs2 <simon.hibbs_at_u-MEuDUWCHxChEwCZIKNaiv9U9mPHdHzBl1Fytt_q53L4de7lcJh-z8LxGDB-dV6>
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:45:19 -0000

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> On 29 Nov 2011, at 15:35, simon_hibbs2 wrote:
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> > Ok. I think that in the same vein that accidentally dropping a stone on your father's head is unintentional manslaughter while deliberately doing so is premeditated murder. At some level they're both still patricide though. You're still in big trouble with the gods. Peter's right on this.
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> Intent is not the issue that I am getting at. My point is the importance of myth. Follow the right mythic pattern and you get the consequence from that myth, not a consequence from some other myth that happens to include similar acts. There must be some reason that kinslaying is more strongly associated with bringing Chaos in Orlanthi cultures than others. And that is not possible if it is just the act itself - there must be something more.

Our difference seems to be that I think the act itself is inherently chaotic, but other factors modify the chances of chaos actually manifesting. You think there's no chance of chaos manifesting unless there are other factors. Is that right?

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> > Not dodgy, distracting and meaningless. You can't construct an argument based on the temporal relationship between things that have no actual meaningful temporal relationship. That aspect of the story is just a side effect of translating the mythic facts into something more easily intelligible to mortal minds.
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> I think that you are going too far here. The Godtime is not SIMPLY everything mashed together everything happening at once - it's rather more complicated than that. It is possible to travel to both the Green Age and the Storm Age and they are distinct, even if the distinction is not temporal. Myths give us sequences of events. HeroQuests are experienced as sequences of events.

Yes, but the underlying meaning of the myth is eternal.

> Thus I say that in the Godtime there is a place where Thed is not the Goddess of Rape, just the victim of Ragnaglar's lust.

That's correct.

> There is a place in the Godtime where Thed is Goddess of Rape and not yet Chaotic.

Yes. There's even a place in the Godtime where Ragnaglar isn't, but if you try to invoke magic using the myths of Ragnaglar from before he became chaotic, don't expect that to work out for you very well. There's no way that's going to be risk free. The whole point of the myths are that certain actions entail certain consequences.

This reminds me of the saying that stories with happy endings are stories that haven't actually ended yet. That's by the bye though.

> If these things were not true, it would not be possible to experience the myths of Thed as HeroQuests (not that I think that many people would want to !)

None of which changes the fact that in Glorantha rape is a chaotic act, because all of the myths are all true right now.

Simon Hibbs