The Orlanthi will deny that the Red Goddess was present at the Ritual of the Net, or subscribed to the Great Compromise, or proved anything at Castle Blue other than that she was a cheat and a deceiver. They may be right to do so -- and even if they aren't, it is inevitable that they would do so anyway.
Those Lunars who deny that the Red Goddess was present do not disagree with the Orlanthi on this point. Though obviously they and the Orlanthi are going to disagree over what this means for the divinity or otherwise of the Red Goddess.
Some Lunars might also argue that the Red Goddess was present through one of the other, older goddesses that was Her in another guise. If this is true, She is divine even on the Orlanthi's own terms.
Which side a particular school of Lunars take probably depends on whether the Lunar in question is drawn to the Red Moon because she is radical and new, or because she is both radical and new and a continuation with the past. For example, Tarshite converts who accept Hon Eel's teachings might well want/need to believe that She was there. (Is Lunar theology inclusive enough to admit both possibilities simultaneously?)
The being through whom the Lunar claims the Red Goddess was present probably was there -- because god-wise anyone who was still anyone was there (unless they had gone the way of Ragnaglar, Yamsur and Vadrus, even if some of the foreigners your side don't recognise were just faces in the crowd.
Unless the Orlanthi has a detailed argument to suggest that the goddess in question (who was probably too obscure to the Orlanthi to merit a mention in their version of the story anyway) was not there because they had gone the way of Ragnaglar, Yamsur and Vadrus, the debate would then move on to (or possibly grind to a halt over) whether the Lunar's claim that this other deity was the Red Goddess by another, earlier name.
Presumably this can be proved (or disproved) to some people's satisfaction, but no-one can satisfy/fool all of the people all of the time.
Also maybe it is easier for some (all?) Lunars for the Red Goddess not to have been at the Ritual of the Net, so she is not bound by the Great Compromise. (If she was then presumably this would mean that she and Orlanth ought to limit hostilities to war between their mortal proxies, when each wants the other eradicated).
I suppose one could put the same kind of spin on Castle Blue -- does it prove: * That Castle Blue reiterated that being part of the Great Compromise (through one's presence at the Ritual of the Net) is the correct test for true Divinity, and as the Red Goddess is divine, the Red Goddess must have been present at the Ritual of the Net, under another name; or
* That the test for whether something/someone is divine does not depend on whether they were present for the Ritual of the Net? (Which is not necessariuly the same as whether one is part of the Grat Compromise as it might be possible to sign up to that later. It also raises an interesting question as to what "The Test" is); or
* That the Red Goddess is not divine, and passed whatever test "the Examiners" at Castle Blue (whoever they were) set, because she cheated
Richard Hayes
On 07/12/2011, at 3:00 AM, Peter Metcalfe wrote:
> On 12/7/2011 2:21 AM, jorganos wrote:
>>
>> What proof is there that the Red Goddess wasn't part of the Compromise?
> Gods that do not appear in the Orlanthi myths are not part of the
> Compromise.
Gods that are not part of Orlanthi myth are not enumerated by name, but the Ritual of the Net is said to include all the deities, specifically including foreign ones.
>> Given her identification with several of the lesser planetary "sons" of Yelm, I find it highly unlikely that these were absent from the Ritual of the Net (from an Orlanthi perspective).
>
> Again the Orlanthi don't see the enemies with that amount of detail.
> They would be lucky enough to pick out their particular rival but
> compiling a order of battle for the Fire Tribe? They are not God Learners.
Conversely, if the Orlanthi do not precisely list all the enemy deities, then the exclusion of any given one is of limited significance.
The Ritual of the Net is an Orlanthi myth that describes, among other things, why the gods are the way they are, including foreign gods explicitly. It doesn't list all the foreign gods, but the vast majority seem to be limited in just the ways the myth suggests anyway.
Cheers
David
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From: David Cake <dave_at_k48SJV2l9LG76iuBoFnQdQ2iWauZojFT9qwA3qcGWZZk1NBKMNW5VJtkukWtPRtHmOofrKJr3e4E5zaY.yahoo.invalid>
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Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011, 19:24
Subject: Re: Red Goddess and Compromise
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