Re: The same good ol' question : what is Chaos ?

From: David Cake <dave_at_576uLj1UY_C8Wgku8B29Yy4Lhiy5jv370nJFU5W6uFfAtpkYblE6h1IDlOCoxUbM_XBQQx5>
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 16:51:01 +0800

On 19/08/2012, at 3:01 PM, Trotsky wrote:

> wrote:

>> Calling ompalam, or the red moon, or gbaji, or malia, or krjalk, 
>> "chaotic" seems meaningless. "Chaos" as we understand it is the 
>> orlanthi (heortling orlanthi) definition. But the world is vast, and 
>> not everybody knows of chaos.
>> The malkioni don't know chaos and don't have a word for it. What they 
>> have are krjalki, which means "demons", evil sorcerers, gbajites : 
>> this is all evil, but not chaotic.

> FWIW, they do in my Glorantha. Sure, things like broo are a type of
> krjalki, and those who use chaos magic are a type of evil sorcerer, but
> they still recognise chaos as a category.

        Krjalki means monster. It covers all sorts of non-humans, including both broo and aldryami and trolls.

        But evil wizards aren't krjalki. They are evil wizards, followers of the Devil.

	I'm with Trotsky - the Malkioni recognise moral evil, they recognise chaos, they recognise error, and they realise they are all connected but not identical. The Zzaburi at least are sophisticated philosophers with a grasp of nuance and detail (and in addition a slight obsession with taxonomy and classification). OK, so maybe your average Horali might not distinguish between the different kinds of krjalki or the different kinds of heretical wickedness, but some Malkioni grasp the detail just fine. 
	I'm sure there are, in fact, whole books of Malkioni theology arguing the differences. I'm sure there isn't one single orthodox Malkioni opinion on exactly the relationship between all these topics (and there clearly are heterodox arguments that go way off the reservation, like the Boristi) but I don't think that means they aren't capable of telling them apart - on the contrary. 

> Many probably don't regard it
> as any worse than, say, elves, or Vadeli, and many may not care much
> about the distinction

        I think they regard chaotic krjalki as in general worse that elves, though both are enemies (well, the Sedalpists hate elves that much, but I think that is unusual). Vadeli, on the other hand, are clearly servants of the Devil, and so are chaotic sorcerers, and Vadeli may well use chaotic magic if it suits them anyway (well, Vadeli almost certainly do Tap so if you think that is chaotic they certainly do), so yeah, I don't think they care so much about that distinction.

> - 'if it's evil and wants to destroy my way of
> life, that's all I need to know' - but that's a different issue. The
> Chaos rune is, at least in my Glorantha, one of the God Learner runes,
> and they were Malkioni. Heck, my Malkioni would identify the Primal
> Chaos as an Eranschula.

	And I think there exist schools of sorcery for manipulating the powers of Chaos, just as there are for the other Eranschula. No reputable non-heretic sorcerer would mess with them, I presume, but 

> Indeed, there is a specialist order/cult of Malkioni chaos fighters in
> my Glorantha. They're nothing like the Uroxi, but there's at least a
> fair overlap in what they're fighting.

	I think to the Malkioni, one of the terrors of chaos is that it is insidious. Elves and trolls may be bad, but most of the time, you can deal with them as outsiders to be dealt with by conventional, well understood,  horali and war magic. Even the same with Vadeli - they may be evil incarnate, but at least they are conveniently colour coded for ease of identification most of the time. But a lot of the Western experience of chaos is that it can be insidious. Gbaji, vampires, succubi/Seseine. 
	So the specialist chaos fighters are probably like the inquisition. They hunt down the insidious chaos, the Boristi, the vampires, the demon summoners and Nysalorians. 
	Of course, as sorcerers schooled in hunting out the chaotic heretical enemy within, they have  common with Arkati from a pragmatic point of view, and they probably would find a lot of practical value in Arkati techniques, apart from the awkward fact that the Arkati are of course another form of heretical enemy within. I'm sure this can turn into paranoid duelling conspiracies in Tanisor. 



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