On 10.01.2013 15:19, Peter Larsen wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, Pomeroi<pomeroi_at_...> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> On 09.01.2013 18:56, bryan_thx wrote:
>>> Can a Heortling farmer figure out what 63 x 17 is? Sure, he asks the
>> Issaries trader :) More seriously, would he ever need to know that? If it
>> ever did really become important he could probably fall back to some
>> counting method using markers which would eventually get him an snswer like
>> "It is seven gross, five dozen, and three. And by Orlanth's beard you'd
>> best get me some ale now because that is thirsty work!"
>>
>> Perhaps he wouldn't know (exactly) 63 x 17, but he would know the value
>> of a sheep (whatever this is!) times the number you want to buy!
>>
>
> I am not sure he would. After all, it's not like you are walking into The
> Grey Goose Sheep Shop and buying two sheep off the rack with standardized
> pricing and VAT added automatically. Instead, you are going to say what you
> want (maybe 10 sheep, maybe 2 hands of sheep, maybe there is a traditional
> number of sheep traded) and make an offer ("I have 100 lengths of striped
> cloth." "I offer this boat." "I will give you two barrels of beer now and
> another when the the next batch is done.") Then the seller might say, "OK,
> but I get to pick the sheep you get." You might respond "No, we take turns
> picking," and the seller responds "then I'll only offer 8 (or one hand and
> three or whatever) for that 100 lengths of cloth." You respond "this cloth
> was woven by my wife who learned the secret songs from her grandmother
> which keep off the moths" and the seller says "8 sheep only, but I will
> promise you that these two have always had healthy lambs" and so on.
>
> I doubt commercial value is standardized at all in Heortling society.
> Everyone has a general idea of the value of things, but specific things
> have different values and circumstances change with the relationships
> between buyer and seller. Remember, for most Heortlings everyone knows
> everyone else, their histories, their character, and the interactions
> between your families and clans going back at least a few generations....
We go off-subject now, because move away from counting and maths, we do
not answer the question in the subject line at all, but that was my
intention.
We just agree, that someone has an idea for a value without using
calculation as we know it.
Your example is more likely than using money, but this does not give
more weight to your first sentence. This is why I said, the farmer would
_not_ know 63 x 17. (What if the sheep has a value of 63 and you want to
buy 17 ;-) I had a reason not to give a number to the value of the
sheep, but "whatever this is", and you clearly give reason in _your_
text, that he _has_ a quite good grasp of the value of a number (or even
a specific set of: e.g. they bigger or healthier ones) of them. (And of
cloth... But this may wander off his expertise. Now this is one of the
reason - besides handling - why they invented money - and still could
not count ;-)