Peter:
>Yet Pelorians see all humans as having seven different parts
>(Mind, Body, Life, Fire, Shadow, Beast and Great Self), so
>is it too much to suggest that the Red Emperor changes a few
>of these parts around between incarnations or that he borrows
>some of those parts from someone else? We are even told
>that Magnificus differed from TakenEgi in five of those
>parts.
Yes, and the Lunars see all humans having seven soul parts or six and one potential. However, you summed up my concerns with the phrase "all humans", Greg has explicitly stated that the Emperor is a demigod and he has defined demigods as being no-human deities within the mortal sphere who can act outside the compromise. If he is a demigod, then he is singular and does not act like a human and does not have the same soul as a human. His soul is different.
>The only part that need remain constant is the Great Self
>and I do recall Greg putting out a game in which a
>Nephilim (sorry guys) possessing different people was
>actually one person (simulacra inclusive) seeking to
>discover itself.
Yes, I liked the game and the concept. I don't know how to apply iy to the RE though, or even if it is an apt comparison.
>The body chosen was that of her warlord, Doskalos.
>But the Emperor does not have Dozkalos's Body now.
No, but that body was destroyed by Sheng and rebuilt but after his raid on the moon, he had to create a new form, which I think is what slowed him down after the raid. He was crippled for some time. Perhaps his body was given to him by a willing noble and this started a tradition of this kind of thing, but I mentioned this before on the digest and the response was that it was similar to the Pharoah and was a big yawn. So that's out.
>The LARP shows Moonson as being a noble who became Emperor after
>completing the rituals.
>Really? I thought it was Moonson assuming the form of a noble
>who completed the rituals.
Looked like the same noble to me, before and after - Julan. And I didn't like him before he was Emp anyway, as he was my rival for the woman I was shagging. Perhaps I was biased? :)
>Let us take a look at FS for clues as to the Emperors origin after
>each Mask is recognised and see why I want to clarify this:
>You should realize that the FS presents a Dara Happan spin on
>things and is not the whole truth. I believe the Lunars would
>view things differently.
The parts on the various masks were written in the lunar period and have many places that show DHs in a bad light. I think the spin is Lunar.
However, this is the only source I have for working on the RE that goes into any depth and I am trying to use only what it says literally as fact, before I start putting spins on it.
>4/51 Magnificus beats Sheng at Kitor but after near 11 years of
>abscence he was doubted to be the Red Emperor, especially as much
>of his army was Carmanian at first. They said he was the Son of
>the Moon but not the Red Emperor as "five of his parts were not
>the same" I think this is a symptom of his recreation with
>different Egi and rituals and the different Empire he came to
>rule.
>Since the Emperor has Seven Parts, the two parts that are
>the same could easily be his Seventh (Rashoranic) Self and
>his Antirius self.
Possibly. But it doesn't say which, so that would be speculation.
>For someone who appeared at a ritual in a small city (and had
>witnesses to the fact) [Artifex] seems pretty darn tough to be
>just a local lord making good.
>Since Constantine appeared in York, Vesapian in Judea,
>Elagabalus in Syria, I don't see why he should have to
>be a "local lord".
Constantine didn't "appear" in York, he was _in_ York and decided to seize the purple. There is a big difference in my mind between "appearing" somewhere and being there to begin with. Same goes for Maximus Thrax, Philipus Arabus, Julian the Apostate etc etc. They were all extant before they attemted to be Emperor. They had a past. Whereas all we have is that Takenegi "appeared" in those places. The literal interpretation is that he wasn't there before, then he was.
>6/41. Celestinus "appeared abrupty in Ebon city, climbing out
>of the sacred cave when it was empty, between rites." Ebon city
>is out in the Imperial sticks on the other side of the Yolp
>mountains.
>And Lyndon Johnson took his oath on office aboard an airplane
>flying from Dallas to Washington. The exact place in the
>sky where he took his oath is otherwise insignificant even
>to this day.
I don't see your point here. The Emperor appeared in Ebon city, which is out of the way. Unlike the LARP, the Emp did not gain the throne via a ritual in Glamour or any other major center of noble or military support. This in itself is odd for an Emperor supposedly created by using the body of a noble, supported by a noble faction. This is why I disagree with the LARPS methodology.
If Lyndon Johnson had "appeared" on a plane in the middle of the flight with no support and then became president, then yes, I think your analogy would hold up, but he clearly existed before and clearly was vice president before and thus was clearly in line to the succession. The reappearing Emperor is just that - reappearing.
>There is no mention of past history,
>Of course there wouldn't be. These are the Dara Happans
>writing who deny the Darjiinian theory that there are
>different Emperors.
I asked Greg - "Have you any ideas for a mechanic for players becoming the
Mask of the Emperor"
and Greg said - :"Read FS and see if you can find any direct references to
the Emperor having a life before he appeared."
I did, and have found none that are direct. It can be inferred and assumed
but there is no direct reference that lacks ambiguity.
>Would the Darjiinians believe that
>the Masks have a previous history, considering they deny
>that they are all the same?
I don't know, there are really no sources on this other than that paragraph you quoted.
>on the contrary, the actual fact of his appearance seems to have
>been taken by many to be the reason why he was worthy of support
>in the first place.
>So you can in fact recognize the Red Emperor easily?
It would seem he is relatively easy to recognise, yes.
>It's strange that the Dara Happans could not do so for both
>Magnificus and Artifex.
Magnificus came back leading Carmanians, he was also claiming to be Emperor to a bunch of DHs who had been under Sheng and seen no signs of the RE for years. They were competing for power in their own right. It says they acknowledged him as Son of the Moon but not Red Emperor. He was claiming to be Emperor before he was tested and this they refuted.
>Artifex could only be accepted after he began rescuing souls from the Nights
of >Horrors.
I think that give that almost all the highest members of the Empire died at NoH, there was bound to be confusion and a loss of knowledge.
>Nor do we see any serious wars of succession other than the
>Proxy war which was more about removing their power than an
>issue of succession.
>Which contradicts your statement that "I think there is room for
>plenty of succession problems".
I said "serious wars". You can have succession problems without a war. Artifex and Magnificus had them as you point out but they didn't go to war over them. It was politics and magical proving. Still a problem, not a serious war.
Martin Laurie
End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #594
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