>The laws invoked by the sorcerers aren't a part of the physical world, but
>have to invoke a plane of sorcery.
They are part of the physical world. They are much easier to manipulate on the Spell Plane.
>If a sorcerer want's to invoke fire, he need not draw it from a sorcery
>plane, since elemental fire is present in
>the innerworld, in every human for instance.
When I look into the human body, I see blood, guts and gore. One could say that elemental fire is present within the human body but I think that one has to go to a higher world to see that this is so.
> > And if this is _mundane_ as you suggest, then everybody
> > with writing can do some sort of sorcery for it would be
> > no different from adding numbers or reading a story.
>I think it takes mental dicipline and extraordinary strength of will. Also
>learning the logic and workings or sorcery is comparable to higher
>mathemathics, something out of reach of many people.
If you are going to invoke the sorcery is higher mathematics, then what happens if someone tries to do the sorcerous equivalent of the basic functions of higher mathematics, i.e. addition, subtration etc?
> >>> Saints are a wizard thing whereas the ancient sorcerers are
> >>> teachers rather than worshipped entities.
>But the analogue I was referring to is that even the sorcerers are
>quite dependant on these entities.
They are not. I've pointed out before that a sorcerer can learn spells directly from the Node. Seeing how you are so fond of redefining terms, I should point out that an RQ3 apprentice was quite dependant on his adept. Is the Adept the apprentice's God? You see the futility of engaging in word-games ("It isn't an act of will, it's channelling!")?
> > It's stated in the rules that [orders] can [create and > research new
>spells].
>What happens when they do this? Am I understanding it correctly that to get
>a functional spell, one has to imprint it on the sorcery plane. One has to
>create a permanent and perfect Idea of the spell on the sorcery plane, and
>if this is successfull, then the sorcerer, and others after him can use the
>spell?
Seems fair enough to me.
> > If all you were complaining about was the feel and spirit,
> > then you should have stated that instead of the erroneous
> > statements that you have been making.
>The actual workings and capabilities have also changed a lot.
Which is no surprise as the basic rules were also changed.
> > But where is the source for [sorcerers] being individualistic?
>That's how it seemed to me, in comparison to the theist and the animist.
I'm having difficulty figuring out how you can see an animist as not being individualistic as they are even more odd-ball than the sorcerers.
>The sorceror seemed like somebody relying and honing his own
>skills. Existing for himself, and not needing anybody.
And the various descriptions of such titles like apprentice, adept, and student, meant what to you?
>They also seemed like the researchers and scientists of Glorantha.
Even Researchers and Scientists in this world need massive help from others.
> > I think by admitting that [the power for sorcery spells are] > based on
>magic and soul, you have effectively conceded an > otherworldly
>powersource.
>I have?
The animists use magic points to cast their spells and nobody has any difficulty in an otherworldly source for their spells.
>If the sorcerers are so much more limited than the theists, shouldn't their
>magic be significantly more powerful.
But sorcery _is_ significantly more powerful than that of theistic magic in the HW rules.
SH> > Take away the familiar, spell matrices and MP storage
> > devices from an RQ3 sorcerer and they're equally impotent.
>Nonsense. The sorcerers tools made him more effiscient, but he still had
>plenty of magic without them. My own sorcerer character only had a small MP
>storage ring, and he did quite well without it.
But you weren't using the Free INT rules, were you? As I said before the need for spell matrices and MP storage devices for RQ3 sorcery could have been _intentional_.
SH>> Sorcery is based on the manipulation of known laws and
>>philosophical principles. These are sometimes referred to as entities. It
>>does not make them gods and more than the Kabbalistic notion of Chokhma is
>>a god.
>But the sorcerers are dependant on these entities for their spells.
And the RQ3 sorcerers are dependant on the laws of magic which can also be called entities.
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