Re: Re: Animism: multiple traditions?

From: Mike Holmes <homeydont_at_...>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:58:40 -0500

>From: "Roderick and Ellen Robertson" <rjremr_at_...>
> > >My preference is "no, they can't" Add YGWV to all my remarks, of
> >
> > Well, apparently not just your preference, but mechanically described in
> > rules, as well.
>Funny, that.

Why the attitude? I think there's some serious confusion going on here. I'm not trying to change or break the rules in any way. I'm trying to do two things:

  1. Get clarifications on what the rules are. You've been of great assistance on that point. Many thanks.
  2. Discuss faith, and the "reasonableness" of playing out the concept of a character being in two religions.

Somehow it seems like you think that I want the rules to reflect something other than they do. But I have no interest in that, whatsoever. Whether it's plausible to be in two religions doesn't mean that it has to be allowed by the HQ rules. I'm only arguing the latter point because it was brought up as evidence that the rules were that you can't be in two religions because it doesn't happen.

Basically, if the rules say that it can't happen, that's very different, IMO, from saying that it can theoretically happen, but is just very unlikely. I'm trying to figure out which the rules say.

>The rules are you can't be in two religions. But a single religion can have
>multiple Otherworld beings in it. Until you concentrate your magic in a
>specific Otherworld, you don't have to care what Otherworld the being you
>are worshipping comes from.

To clarify, does this pertain to the "10%ers" as you call them? That is, I'm clear on the point about being able to have magic from another otherworld in the same religion. My question is back to religions per se, can one be a Grazer Spirtist, and a Storm Pantheon Communal Worshipper? Read strictly, what you say above would say no. That would be something I didn't know.

The rules that I've been referenced say only that one cannot be a practitioner in two traditions because of the core tradition limit, that one can't be an initiate in two different religions, etc. Because of specific limitations there (which have other ramifications as well, I'm aware). The question is whether there's an overal proscription.

If you mean to say that the 10%ers don't "count" as being in a religion to some extent, and are therefore not covered by the above caveat, then that would match my previous understanding of what you were saying.

>Well, how does that
> > work with the Kolat practice? Is there, again, no core practice, or does
> > kolat become a core practice? Does the spiritist then have access to
> > tradition spirits? Basically, do they get an additional "religion
> > as a spiritist, or does the Storm Pantheon one go away? Or do they just
> > without a spiritist keyword?
>Kolat is an integral part of the Storm Pantheon. Only when you concentrate
>does the difference between worshipping a Spirit or a God become important.

Agaiin, what I was wondering here was how one could be a Practitioner of the Kolating practice if he had no "core practice," which I had sorta assumed came along with the Spiritst of X keyword, given that the tradition charms seemed attached to this. I'm assuming now that, either this is an exception, or that the Kolating Practice itself counts as both a Core Practice, and one from which one can get Practice Spirits? This would be an exception given that the rules say that one can only get tradition spirits from core practices, IIRC.

Again, I have no problem with the rule, I'm just wondering how to write up such a character. I'm not digging for the Kolating specifics, just a general overview is fine.

>And Player Heroes are about Breaking the rules. You ask about the rules,
>there they are, right there. You want to break the rules, how and why is up
>to you. *Can* it be done? of course, that's why we play the game. But
>is going to give you rules on how to break the rules.

Not asking for any. In fact I could go on about how I don't believe in breaking the rules, but that's another point entirely.

>It's not faith-shattering to discover
>that someone else can do magic, *everyone* does magic. It's like breathing.
>(In fact, Breathing *is* magic, according to the Heortlings.)

Well, if magic is so normal, then I'm pretty sure that it won't make faith all the more difficult to change. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, again. Magic makes people more faithful, but it's not impressive enough to them to make them question their own faith when they see someone else do it.

Again, I don't have a problem with it even being rarer than in our world. I'm only concerned as to whether or not it's possible at all.

>The times your faith will be tested are not during day-to-day interaction,
>but episodes where your way is shown to be bad, wrong, or not as powerful
>someone else's. Things like the Windstop are faith-shattering.

Well, I won't get into a debate about what's more faith-shaking than what - that'll have to be a matter for individual players and narrators to work out anyhow. All I meant to say was that exposure to other faiths, as in your examples, could shake faith potentially. Which we seem to agree upon.

Basically, nobody has convinced me that it's implausible to be in two 
religions, thematically, but if it happens that this is the case in 
Glorantha, because the rules say that's the case, then I'd like to know. I 
mean, I could, for example, accept that there was simply something about the reality of religions in Glorantha that made it impossible. Or even impossible enough not to allow it in the basic rules about religion.


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