Good points, but I have some responses:
>Andy wrote
>>I'm in favor of "expanding" Tradition Knowledge to include the various
>>forms of dealing with spirits. (The quotes around "expanding" are there to
>>indicate that I think that Tradition Knowledge is already the logical
>>source of a shaman's ability to deal with spirits.)
>
>One aspect of my hesitancy is that it would give shamans a master
>ability -- one ability they could pump all their hero points into and
>get every possible thing a shaman could ever want.
Tradition Knowledge does not substitute for Spirit World Travel to cross over to the Spirit World, nor should it help very much with hostile and out-of-tradition spirits, like disease spirits. That -10 for an alien tradition is a good starting point and most spirits that are encountered in strange lands where adventurers go should be more difficult to deal with.
Also, without Tradition Knowledge (at 3/level, 1 level maximum raise at a time) being the core ability to deal with spirits, the shaman just pumps up Spirit Combat (at standard ability costs, which are much cheaper), leading to a much more powerful character in shorter time.
>>If the shaman does have Bargain, Flatter, or Grovel, does this mean that
>>shamans are good bargainers, flatterers, or grovelers in other aspects of
>>life? I don't think so. (This leads to weird results like the high strength
>>mages in GURPS that exist because strength is directly related to "magic
>>points".)
>
>But shamans *are* master bargainers, at least in Robin Laws's view
>(expressed in many different encounters in King of Dragon Pass).
>
>And why not? If a shaman can flatter an incorporeal sentient being,
>why not flatter a corporate being?
Shamans seem to have mad/crazed personality traits. I see them as doing things that please the spirits but seem demented to the theists around them. Therefore I see flattering and bargaining with spirits as not mapping equally to flattering and bargaining with the more "sane" people around them. I am willing to say the mundane Flatter and Bargain skills can augment Tradition Knowledge, but I feel that they should not replace them.
Thanks,
Andy
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