> You know, I think a lot of this problem stems from the
> confusion between homeland and occupation we touched
> on earlier. Most Heortlings are farmers: but that
> doesn't mean we should be moving abilities from the
> Farmer keyword to the homeland one. Certainly not if
> it means giving a Heortling sage the same spear&shield
> ability as a warrior!
I wonder why not, if said warrior obviously disdained use of that weapons combo to the extent that he doesn't outshine the next best farmer? My Chernan and Hevduran apprentices would be astonished that they are not supposed to form the second ring of defenders if their expedition was attacked, much like the fyrdmen at home.
> Suppose we take the Homeland abilities as those you
> get massive exposure to while growing up in that
> culture, without necessarily taking part in them
> yourself. And then drop the level of that keyword to
> be lower than the occupation one. You don't use an
> ability as lead by choice if it's just something
> you've grown up with, not something that's part of
> your job, but you know the basics. Any non-drivers on
> the list? RR? I bet you still know what I mean by a
> hand-brake turn. And you probably know what needs
> doing to start a car and move it ten yards forwards,
> even if the attempt would be slow and painful.
There are kids out there who know more about starting a car (especially without the proper keys) than I ever will, but still my driving skills, faulty though they may be as accidents proved, will stand me a lot better in critical situations than theirs because of even more critical situations which I mastered unscathed.
> Then the gender issues usually get covered by those
> hidden keywords Mike was refering to earlier, and by
> choice of profession. (DH male and female seem to me
> to be separate homelands! segregation and so on).
On the matter of weapon skills, there are gender, cult, class restrictions to be considered. DH as a single homeland can only work if supplemented by subculture modifications to that homeland.
> So your average Heortling woman gets a gender keyword
> that includes things like "endurance", "patience",
> "able to give birth", "able to suckle a child".
You forgot "coldhearted" or "rational" (choose whether you want ability or flaw), "braided", "wearing an overdress" and a couple of other adjectives which might turn into abilities at odd times.
> Heortling men would get a gender keyword that would
> include "strong", "boastful", "able to father a
> child", "bearded".
I tend to disagree with "strong" as being the norm, and I miss "emotional".
But then I believe in defining a character by his or her back-story, and keywords serving mainly as a guide how they came about.
Childhood expertises can be astonishingly high skills, and aren't necessarily forgotten as adults.
Parent (and other cohabiting adults') occupations will be reflected in a character's abilities, even if said character never pursued that career. A child growing up next to a red-smith's forge and castery will know a lot more about fixing superficial damage to metal items than an adult from a potter's household.
There will be some social or cultural borders that aren't crossed by ordinary folk - a male Malkioni or Dara Happan noble is unlikely to know much about plowing, whereas a male Heortling noble is familiar with the process if only from doing it in the rites.
> 3a. Re: What's a Keyword?
> Posted by: "Greg Stafford" Greg_at_... glorantha1
> Quoting Mike Holmes <mike_c_holmes_at_...>:
>> The question isn't whether that's the case, >> but how large (or small) "everyone" is as a group.
> It depends on the nature of the game, the scale and obejectives, the
> PC and NPC range to be found.
In my experience that is bound to change from episode to episode.
> In HeroQuest, the cultures that are presented are what I consider to
> be the proper scale for the heroic Sartar Rebellion.
Still, that story arc too changes from momentous action like the Battle of Iceland to periods hiding out in the back of nowhere (such as scenario about the clan threatening to fall apart). Totally different focus and scale.
> I wouldn't really classify the urban dwellers of Boldhome as Urban.
> Not when compared with real urban cultures like Dara Happa. So, as a
> broad spectrum, I'd give all the Heortlings Rural.
The same has to be said about Esrolians (despite Nochet) and Dara Happans, too. There is a great conceptual difference between an "urban" Heortling and an urban Dara Happan (neither of whom ever left their city), but neither has much more in common with the plowman who never left his village in either culture.
Boldhome is a city about the size of medieval York or Chester, has a regular population of foreigners like any seaport would have (even non-humans!), and can be more of a microcosm for its inhabitants than a traditional small clan hidden in some back valley. A character growing up there, probably outside of regular clan connections, will have a totally different backstory. There will be street gangs (as are lovingly detailed in Pavis), insights to foreign cultures (however biased) and expectations to the environment which will be familiar to urban Dara Happans but baffling to rural Heortlings (and Dara Happan rural Lodrili as well).
> I have always had wierdo characters who don't quite fit the norm of
> the culture. But I also insist that the players understand that their
> characters are wierd, and that everyone else in their society thinks so.
Such as sages, mercenary warriors, or city dwellers (2 out of 3 have their own keywords...).
I think part of the question is how much "being a member of community X" (or "having been...") imparts keyword-like basic skill levels, or modifies the general cultural or occupational keywords.
>> If new abilities are allowed, what's the criteria?
> Logic and story.
> Your Heortling wants Make Cement as a part of his Hunter profession?
> Nonsense. He wants it as a special ability, and can tell me how he got
> that knowledge, fine.
So, if my Heortling hunter has a year of road-working as experience in his back-story (possibly the result of say a prince asking for work force rather than cattle for tribute), how do I formulate the skill package aquired during that activity? Make Cement might fall into this. Getting it at cultural keyword level would be sufficient for the back-story, how to account for that?
> If they are small, say the Deri of Prax, then they don't have
> specialties anyway.
Ok, I'll bite. I know the immortal green-skinned telepathic Deri from the Waertagi story in Missing Lands. There is a place called "Sog Ruins" in southern Prax. Are you suggesting that there is a Deri ("culture") stranded there?
Roderick:
> Actually, farming makes sense even for "urban" Heortlings - even in the
> middle of the 18th Century London had dairies, farms, etc. in the middle
> of town (okay, not in "the City" but real close to it). it's only, really,
> with the advent of the internal combustion engine that famrs and such were
> able to move away from population centers (Speed of transit is what
> allowed it, and refrigeration). Don't expect Boldhome to be like the
> middle of London as it is nowadays, or L.A., New York, Seattle,
> [insert local city here]. It's a lot of open land with some buildings
> in it, not a lot of buildings with some open space (parks).
Boldhome is special with regard to the open spaces (along with Old Pavis), but especially the dwarf-made parts of the city will be closer to 20th century Manhattan than 14th century London.
Much of the "open land" in Boldhome will be slanted... I will have to look up a couple of pictures of the "Hoellental", a high valley just below Zugspitze, which might give a good impression of the "arms" of hinter Boldhome.
Gardens, maybe an occasional barley plot, quite a lot of land used as pasture, but a far cry from a rural community.
> The great Dara Happan and Kralorelan cities (Maybe teshnos...) would be
> the only ones which I'd assign a seperate "Urban" keyword to.
I'd definitely add Fonrit, Safelster and all the major seaports. Urban is not just defined by size, but also by admitting a certain degree of otherness, whether home-made or imported. Men of the Sea had to say things about "Those Men of the Sea" which applies for every center of trade or "imperial" government (even if it's just a Satrap's seat).
> Even in Seshnela or
Burghers aren't peasants, even in a caste system.
Many city-dwellers know next to nothing about food preparation. Real urban accomodation won't have hearths where cooking is done; instead, prepared food is bought from the numerous "fast food" sellers and taken along. It takes estate-like households in order to have your own cooking place, affordable maybe to thane-status craft-people/merchants or outright nobility.
Boldhome is worse than many cities in this regard, with its dwarf-made living quarters that house about 40% of the population.
Of course Boldhome also has the tribal manors, with practically rural Heortling conditions. Try to go there if you are not a tribal member, though...
A city the size of Boldhome has friendly, neutral, and hostile districts. Especially when you are growing up, and aquiring all your Homeland and Cultural Keyword skills.
> Even the most "urban" Heortling in the middle of Boldhome will have
> knowledge of farming, and will probably have a vegetable garden and some
> animals (a sheep or cow, chickens, etc).
Not if you grew up in the pockets...
Keeping some fowl and a pig (or dog, goat, sheep, add any other food animal) is common urban praxis, a way to get some profit even out of food waste.
> If sent out into the countryside, he might have to spend
> a little time getting back "into shape", but he'd be
> able to survive. Take a dara Happan city dweller out to the fields,
> however, and he *wouldn't*.
Someone from the pockets would be in as bad a position as a Dara Happan city dweller. Given the less social nature of city dwellers, these people would find unlawful survival options bound to annoy the locals (and wonder about the consequences of merely dubious behaviour in the cities).
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