>
> --- Michael Hitchens <michaelh_at_LZIp4fpfIUKFLHnZEpgDBU4eznRDkqKcPq3-IVObvsZ5rijVTXr1wGrxtmawktTexNzbO-kn5o2VzYMTBZPO.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
>> I know it's old and therefore of uncertain validity,
>> but....
>
> I question your "therefore", but...
Ummmm, how about
"therefore I don't know what status its validity is, because some things
back then aren't as valid as they were when published and some are and I'm
not sure which are which"?
>> In Wyrm's footprints, p.65 it says
>>
>> "Umath had five sons, ... all were raging and
>> violent, but each was more
>> refined than the one before him. The five sons of
>> Umath, by order of
>> birth are : Kolat, Storm Bull, Vadrus, Humakt and
>> Orlanth."
>
> Here's another source for you. KoS, the initiation of
> Orlanth.
>
> The brothers listed, in order of testing (which may or
> may not be significant), are:
> Vadrus, Urox, "the other one", Humakt, Orlanth.
> Orlanth is noted as being the youngest child.
> The testing is done by uncles of the brothers, also
> referred to as giants.
>
> "The giants were Genert, Lord of the Earth; Kalt, the
> Renewing God; Lodril, lord of Fire; Magasta, the Sea
> giant; Dehore, Darkness-keeper; and some others whose
> names are not known now. These were all uncles of the
> children gods, so although they hated them they could
> not kill them."
>
> That's mainly elements, except for "Kalt, the Renewing
> God", and Air is missing. I suspect that this is
> Kolat, who has been "promoted" from brother to uncle.
>
> That at least gets you "the other one" back into the
> Five, though doesn't help as to order.
>
> Personally I would question the order you quote in any
> case when combined with that reasoning, and I start to
> wonder about the Gloranthan authorship.
>
> "all were raging and violent, but each was more
> refined than the one before him" - a logical idea,
> though with a scent of Godlearnerism, but:
> "Kolat, Storm Bull, Vadrus, Humakt and Orlanth"?
> Rating Storm Bull as more violent than Vadrus? A
> discussed elsewhere, that seems odd.
>
> Sorry, I haven't helped much with figuring out where
> "the other one" fits in the sequence :(
I agree it seems awfully Godlearnerish - fits too neatly with their arithmetic progression ideas of creation and divine geneaology. And I grant the problem of the ordering of Storm Bull and Vadrus. Although it doesn't say that the latter were *less* violent - only more refined. Could be read as they were all as violent as each other, the youngers ones just a little more cultured about their application of it :-)
Anyway, that wasn't my real point. My real interest was in the possibly of Ragnaglar being the oldest son of Umath and what potential could be mined by that, especially attitudes to oldest son inheritance amongst the Orlanthi.
Michael
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