Re: Heortling social structure and wergeld confusion - a clarification

From: donald_at_GFs1hhOZrh3kaU_LECNgzjkBLXGCdxUQ4-bHFLTGH16QfcEUZpEO6Am-29jJegx2_lxg0
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:53:38 GMT


In message <f0ilh4+net6_at_eGroups.com> "valkoharja" writes:
>
>I'm not trying to take the clans out of the equation. I'm trying to
>figure out a realistic vision of how individual wealth is created and
>maintained, and a believable mechanism of why the thanes become and
>stay thanes, and how they support their expensive lifestyle.

You are assuming thanes have a significantly different lifestyle from the typical carl or cottar. I don't think that's true, about the only way you'd pick out a thane in normal working clothes is details like a metal belt buckle rather than just a tied belt. Thanes are successful individuals who have attained relative wealth but that's reflected in taking a sword as well as spear and shield to the fyrd. And in more jewelry and decorative stitching on their best clothes. The former providing something it's possible to sell if their family falls on hard times.

The whole stead will often eat together from the same pot although there will be a status based order of priority. In that situation it will be seen as greedy for the thanes to take so much there is nothing left for the stickpickers.

>The warrior-noble logic seems to fit the society quite well.

It's *a* social structure that fits that level of technology but not the only one. Given that the ultimate authority is the clan moot which appoints the ring to take routine decisions a warrior nobility isn't right. Nor is it some socialist utopia but the direct origin of parliamentary democracy. Tracing a direct line from the Viking "thing" via the Manx parliament to the English parliament.

>I assume that the chieftains hall belongs to the clan and the office
>of the chieftain, and not to him as a person (nor to his bloodline).
>I'd say the chief is usually the head of one of the bloodlines of the
>clan. One of the landowning thanes, and that he moves to the
>chieftains village when he get's elected (or she, let's not forget).

I suspect the major players in clan politics already live in the chieftain's village, certainly some members of their bloodline will do. I can see two alternatives, one is a largely ceremonial hall which no one actually lives in. The other is that the main bloodlines all have a hall in that village and the chief uses his bloodline's hall.

>I'd also say that a farmer pays taxes both to his/her local thane, as
>well as to the clan's communal larders.

We're Orlanthi, we don't pay taxes. We contribute to the clan's stores to support a few weaponthanes and other necessary expenses. We also pay tribute to the Lunars because our Ring has persuaded us we're not yet strong enough to send them packing.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/

           

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