On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Todd Gardiner <todd.gardiner_at_Sw8kUWnrZDktz5T36-ZgSH6DQ0-ZgPGYRJUbWoA0wqRoA9ij8v7XrLH6KXKe_1lJKi1dLSvxkCGYMN0lvoGzpg.yahoo.invalid>wrote:
> The major forces of the middle world, such as the Sun, existing as
> "overlapping" entities in the otherworlds.
This means nothing to me.
> There is an essential version of
> the sun, a divine version of the sun and a spiritual version of the sun.
>
I would would say, each of the three Otherworlds has an entity which like Glorantha's Sun. In fact, it is so much like it, that we should call thm suns too.
> From the Godlearner perspective, this are separate and distinct entities,
> which each represent the fullness of the observable phenomenon of the sun.
>
I don't know what GL tradition you are following.
The GL I know and love would have said that the otherworld entities are each
separate and incomplete.
So is our sun, which is an unequal measure of the Three energies.
While the essence nature of things is not generally "worshiped"
The essences ARE worshiped, through what I called Veneration. They get "human energy" given to them, and in return they perform a rote, prepared magic. Done en masse, this is western worship.
(although
> there is always misapplied worship) the other two are. The Horse peoples
> chose the Spirit Sun (or perhaps it chose them)
There are many horse peoples, and used to be more. The differentiation between them is not helped by their large-scale movements amidst each other, and amidst/agaist Dara Happan and Vinkotling cultures, who called them by labels that later were used as names, and by names that ere thought to be labels and applied willy nilly to everyone who rode anything like a horse.
The horse tribes that worshiped and worship Kargzant, the Spirit Sun by
whatever name or title he goes by, because they are of the same tribe,
through adoption, descent, capture, acquisition of the powers, voluntary
worship, enslavement, revelation or natural ecological interface between
worlds.
Just like why the Orlanthi worship Orlanth.
and the Dara Happens descend
> from the sky world of the divine Otherworld.
>
Correct
>
> Another example, Ernalda is the major god
goddess I presume, and she goes by another name. And there was a great
female earth spirit too.
Never heard of her?
That is because chaos got her--there is nothing left, not even a memory.
> of the earth for Genertela, but
> Genert was the major spirit. Tragically, he died in the age of Darkness and
> now the spirit-tied lands of eastern Genertela suffer.
>
Note that he's not as dead as his forgotten female half.
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Stephen Tempest
> <e-g_at_0mpgoA_2q5tMp-GYHROYOjE4ZFdNFSwzgn7hpwlRvuiW4SobkMun_R7A4PyBiehGq7Pz6vyPV0aGEdIyBCwd.yahoo.invalid>wrote:
>
> > "Nicholas P" <nick.the.nevermet_at_FYUl4UUinRAmVgw-e_letKdUPRU1rexOgm3qJ7BIr8ZfcIVLJgYmYvq0EFDFAxpvfIDceqoMy5ol15zMhnwRWT0hHVvtRA.yahoo.invalid <nick.the.nevermet%40gmail.com
> >>
> > writes:
> >
> > >Are there any myths from Dara Happa & Pent (including the Grazers & the
> > Char-Un) that account for why Kargzant is a spirit while Yelm & Co. are
> > gods?
>
First, they do not need to explain it, because it just simply is. But they do: just like Orlanth, they were once beings of the Court, or could have been, but they changed themselves so much that they could not fit--they had to be rejected, or even forced themselves out through their surliness. You can be sure that many of the early myths about Shargash bashing these guys and those guys are about the war against essences and spirits. The enemies of the state lives in "strongholds" around and outside the Solar Empire. Shargash fought for a long time against Dankulono and his armies, who are mostly spirits; and his stronghold was impregnable. Shargash failed many times against it, and finally just picked it up physically and carried to his own fort, to help populate it. He put them all in his own prison, in the underworld.
> I could also probably ask the same question about SurEnslib of the
> > Darjiin.
>
Again, she is one of those that is just there from the start, coming to pay homage to Yelm like many others. Several spirits and essences are on the Gods Wall.
I also realize that Pentans and the Dara Happans likely have
> > different understandings of this.
>
Yes. Not exactly diametrically opposed, but similarly opposite.
> Personally, I've always thought that the 'Jenarong Rites' introduced
> > by the Kargzanti nomads were misapplied worship of Yelm (or Antirius)
> > by animists. This still gave the Hirenmador dynasty enough power of an
> > unusual sort to achieve hegemony over the other horse nomads... but
> > once the Dara Happans got their act together and rediscovered the
> > proper theist Yelmic rites, they were able to rebel successfully.
>
Pretty good dude.
That is part of it.
> >
> > But I don't know whether that impression fits Glorantha as currently
> > depicted. :-)
>
Works for me.
--
Greg Stafford
Game Designer
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