Re: Saint Orderlies

From: Tim Ellis <tim_at_iWAvVjy-Zd_54ruUMjy8LFXG1XT63-1yRkLZwr7TM5W3la0NyBZ-VfOW7kcjIvV810U9n-RJ>
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:08:01 -0000

I don't pretend to be anywhere near as knowledgable as Trotsky or Peter about these things, but as an "other gloranthaphile" I'll throw in my 2 clacks  

> I realise my ignorance to HeroQuest
> definition of "Veneration".

Veneration is a form of worship that does not involve the sacrifice of material goods (like the worship of the theists) nor the ecstatic rituals (like the worship of the animists). I think of it like Christian worship - normally through a congregation lead by a liturgist (or orderly or wizard) - or through an individuals prayers - I realise this may not be as helpful to people bought up in other cultures/religions!

> But I suppose we should
> decide what means the term °…saint°… before I ask more questions
> to Jamie and/or Greg.

Of course, even in the Christian tradition, different churches have different definitions of what constitiutes a saint, how one becomes one, and what the relationship between God, Saint and worshipper is, so there may very well not be a single universally agreed answer.

It certainly appears that some churches (like the Aeolians) treat theistic gods as "saints" through misapplied worship. These saints are almost certainly unknown to any other church.

The Rokari, on the other hand are trying to remove the veneration of many saints that are commonly venerated by their neighbours. At least until "Heroes of Malkion" and it's sequels come along and change my mind, in my Glorantha, some of these are because they do not consider the individual is "really" a saint, while in others, they accept the sanctity of the individual, but do not consider their veneration to be the correct way of handling the interaction between worshipper, saint and the Invisible God *
> 2) What is Orderly "formularies"? I can make some imagery to
> Scriptures (similar to RW bible) and Grimoires (perhaps it is
> similar to Dungeon's and Dragon's Spellbook). In HQ rulebook,
> Formulary is "a non-magical book that
> contains the specific formula used to cast the spell.".

Again - and recognising this may be less than helpful, I see a formulary as being like a Christian prayer book, rather than scripture which is more analagous to a Grimoire. The formulary lays down the correct words and forms for worship in order to achieve the approved blessings. One would "learn" a formulary while you "study" a grimoire.

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