Me:
>1) When did Saintly Orders firstly appear in Glorantha?
Jamie:
>The earliest saintly orders date from at least the early Dawn Age, but
>did not necessarily take their modern form. (In fact, I'm currently
>writing up a history of a saintly order for Tradetalk
Hmm, which issue?
Peter:
> It was only through the devotions of the Jrusteli (close to
>the lands of the erstwhile Tadeniti) that the Malkioni perspective
>was able to reconciled with writing. And it is typical of the
>God Learners that what was once a lost method has become
>the only mainstream method.
Peter wrote some interesting ideas.
It seems that Peter thinks the modern form of Saintly Orders generally
started around 2nd Age.
Me:
> 2) What is Orderly "formularies"? I can make some imagery to Scriptures
> (similar to RW bible) and Grimoires (perhaps it is similar to
Dungeon's and
> Dragon's Spellbook). In HQ rulebook, Formulary is "a non-magical
book that
> contains the specific formula used to cast the spell.".
Jamie:
>A formulary is a type of grimoire used by saintly orders rather than
>wizardry schools. It contains the details of how to cast spells.
Peter:
>A formulary (I understand HQ2.0 has junked the distinction
>between grimoires,formularies and scriptures) is a collection
>of the order's magical knowledge
>as opposed to the direct magic of the saint. In other words,
>it is magic compatible with the Saint's Teachings, magic
>that the Saint is reliablyknown to have used or magic
>developed by the order through magical research.
Jamie:
>In most cases, followers of the saints memorise the spells they are
>taught, without having to literally read the grimoire. The liturgists
>are usually literate, but even that is not always the case, depending
>on which saint we're talking about.
Me:
> So, it might mean that ordinary people can't read their holy books
except
> specialists. Credoes in HQ rulebook about Rokari and Ship of Life
Church
> both mentions "Sanctified Legacies". I am not sure it is from Abiding
> Book.>>
Jamie:
>The 'sanctified legacy' is not necessarily from the Abiding Book,
>although it can be, depending on the sect.
My imagery to Saintly Formularies are a sort of a colorful picture scroll depicting each of lives of Saints. For many formularies are titled 'The Life of Saint []'.
Moreover, IIRC, Greg said in 2001 literacy rates of Gloranthan people are quite low, even in most civilised area, it is around 5 percents of population or so. But it might be gregged during 7 years. (If so, saintly spells might be orally instructed.)
Me:
>3) Is there any clear mention about "Saintly Veneration" in Abiding Book?
>(I
>suppose the answer is "No".)
Jamie:
>The veneration of saints is at least supported by the Abiding Book,
>because its followers in the Imperial Age did exactly that. The
>'sharp' version favoured by the Rokari may be less clearly supportive,
>but it obviously doesn't condemn the practice outright, since even two
>saints are fully integrated into the Rokari Church (Gerlant and
>Iames), and there are a few others that Theoblanc hasn't got round to
>banning yet (e.g. Xemela).
Peter:
>The Abiding Book teaches people how to venerate Malkion. It is
>silent on the issue of whether the veneration of other saints is
>permissable or not.
I agree with Peter, but Jamie (and Malion of Japan) hold counterweights.
Adjective 'Sharp' was also used in God Learner Version of Abiding Book. It might be a random, or intentional coincidence. IIRC, in MSE the god 'Malkioneran the Devil' was the God of 'Sharp' Abiding Book. (Isn't this opinion supported by Rokari?)
Jamie:
>A saint is, essentially, a powerful Malkioni hero who has managed to
>create a node on the Saint Plane, thus allowing his followers access
>to one of the Runes, and some accompanying spells. Saints are
>distinguished from other types of hero, and from the Founders of
>wizardry schools, in that they are recognised as holy by a Church, and
>revealed some significant aspect of God or His worship to the
>faithful. There are exceptions to this general rule, as there are to
>most things in Glorantha, but that's the gist of it.
Is it possible someone still living in Mundane World can be as a Saint? But I found many saints are martyred.....
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