Hello all, I'm mulling over Fronela, as one of those places that seems
not to be already hammered in stone that might be fun to build up some.
(I'm terribly fond of the Holy Country, but its smack-dab in the middle
of the GAC, which means there really isn't much to play with there.) I
realize this might all be rendered moot by LotW - all my questions might
be answered there. (So yeah, this whole thing might be lots of Trotsky
and possibly Nick Brooke answering me.)
So, a few questions.
- Is Fronela going to feature prominently in Lords of the West? It
seems only Loskalm really gets written about for the most part, but the
ToC for book one seems to bring hope for some of these other places,
including Jonatela. I suspect that the series will mostly be pitched
further South, but could be wrong, of course.
- Loskalm: It falls to God Learner rule fairly early. When does it
shake itself free?
- Valmark: At some point, Loskalm seems to stretch all the way down the
Janube river valley. (Eastpoint) When? Pre-God learners? Post
God-learners? (Obviously, not in current "Third Age" Loskalm.) I notice
that the Hero Wars Glorantha book puts it in the Kingdom of Valmark,
which was once ruled from Galastar. In The Second Age book from
Mongoose, there is no mention of this kingdom, so it seems to show up
later. There is a city called Ikankos that appears to be about where
Eastpoint is in the Third Age. (It is possible the Ban altered
geography quite a bit, of course.) So is it after the God Learners fall
and the EWF (which seems to be influential in the eastern Janube) as
well that Valmark and Loskalm both rise, trading land as Loskalm expands
and then recedes? Valmark seems to have pushed Loskalm west and then
lost much of that territory to the Carmanians, who appear to have been
trying to conquer the Lunars who fled Sheng Seleris. It appears to not
have lasted into the Third Age very far, perhaps broken apart entirely
by the Ban. (It might exist in the minds and hearts of the Galastari,
though.) It seems it has had Orlanthi, Malkioni, Lunar, and Carmanian
influence over the years. Galastar is stated as being more Orlanthi than
any of the other influences. I suspect it is a quite different
Orlanthi-ism than the Sartarites, of course. It also seems, that if the
Carmanians fled Loskalm along the Janube river before settling in
Carmania, that Valmark was formed to resist Carmania expanding back west
along that same route.
- Junora: It was part of Loskalm at some point, but became
independent. It seems it was independent before the Ban, and picked off
bits of Southern Loskalm that ended up cut off from the main Kingdom. It
is now an independent county, and seems to cover some of the cities you
can see on the Second Age map. It is possible it only became independent
post-Ban, but that isn't how it the implication runs. Considering
Loskalm developed its perfect Hrestoli liberation during the Ban, this
presumably has a slightly different implementation of the ideals of
Hrestol. (I believe this is Reformed vs New Idealist?)
- Jonatela: A Kingdom in the Third Age book, although one that was
fractured by the Ban, it was just "The Golaros Lowlands" in the Second
Age. There it is described as farmed by two Orlanthi tribes, one heavily
influenced by EWF, the other Old Ways. At some point, there was a
Malkioni takeover of some kind. The lowlands are rich, the highlands
poorer. The King and his boyars are Malkioni, it is possible some of the
castles are held by tribal nobility. Certainly some of the fractured
parts returned to tribal nobility and pagan rule. I assume that means
Orlanthi, but we are talking Malkioni here, so they might be any number
of traditions. It is on the opposite side of Charg, and tucked into the
mountains, and so seems another place the Carmanians could have come and
messed about. In fact, I need a better map of the region, as I'm not
sure why the Carmanians didn't stop there instead of fleeing across the
sea and mountains to present-day Carmania. Maybe the Orlanthi were just
too much trouble compared to the Pelandans and Spolites to conquer. I
do suspect that the Jonatela may have formed as a Kingdom in defense
against Carmanian pressure against them. I have heard the Syanoran
Church founded sometime in the 12th century as the unifying force here.
If the Carmanians are an early offshoot of the Talor thread of
Malkionism in the West, then Syanoran coming from the Gerlant thread
makes for an interesting counterpoint. Perhaps it was adopted to
remove/refute Carmanian influence?
- The Arrolians: They show up in the late 1300s, fleeing Sheng Seleris.
They are Lunar, but not Empire. It is unclear to me why they never
re-united with the Empire, I think Sheng is driven out before the Ban
falls, so it isn't that. (Obviously, when the Ban does fall, it means
any reconciliation attempts by Empire are delayed.) They seem to be
taken over by Carmania after fleeing Sheng. I don't remember Carmania
striking out again as Empire while resisting Sheng, but I guess it did,
as it was always somewhat autonomous, and only recently converted to the
Lunar Way. I suppose the oppressive rule of the Carmanians might be due
to any number of things, but it does seem odd if the Carmanians were
recent converts and shoring up power to hold the Lunar Way against
Sheng. It is unclear whether the three Arrolian cities listed in the HW
Glorantha book were separated during the Ban or not. I suspect yes.
- Charg: Once EWF, conquered by Carmania during the Age of Empires, now
swathed in the Ban. It's fate post-EWF is unclear, although I would
assume it was mostly Carmanian and I assume was actually part of Lunar
Carmania at one point.
- Carmania: They are supposedly Froneleans who refused to submit to the
Godlearners. Since the Godlearners were in charge in the west, this puts
them in Loskalm or as perhaps from one of the Janube City States. I
think Nick Brooke made them from Jorri and the remnants of a routed
army. How Hrestoli were they? Trotsky's old site shows them branching
off before even the reformed Hrestoli church, but still part of the
Talor thread. Of course, you could say they underwent a radical
transformation post the revelations from Carmanos and really have very
little in common with the Western Churches now. I suppose they did march
back to Loskalm to try and take over from time to time and so must be an
influence on the area.
L.Castellucci - just flailing around looking for a place to put some
creative energy.